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Wargaming => The Modern World => Topic started by: LetsPlayHistory on December 20, 2022, 08:49:35 AM

Title: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on December 20, 2022, 08:49:35 AM
Hi gang,

I've never been much of a modern guy (LOL), but getting back into Flashpoint Campaigns with Southern Storm and playing some Combat Mission: Cold War recently, I think I got my fix and ordered a bunch of 3mm packs from Oddzial Osmy to put together a few battlegroups over my end of the year vacation (actually 33 packs, but I won't use all of the figures, especially not of the support vehicles, of course).

What I am planning to put together are 2,5x2,5cm bases with one or two vehicles and/or infantry (not quite decided yet, some rules want the dismounted infantry as seperate bases, some don't) representing platoons. A company would then be 3-4 bases, fairly abstracted to work with my 2-3mm-ish terrain boards which I also use for my 3mm Napoleonics.

Noooow to possibly the most difficult part. Which rules to use?! I'll give AlienStar's WW3 (https://alienstargames.files.wordpress.com/2022/05/ww3.pdf) a go, they look fairly streamlined and have nice interactive combat mechanics (while the main system is IGOUGO). Heard that Modern Spearhead is quite popular still?

Any other suggestions? They should work fine on such an abstracted level, have a bit more nuance than plain IGOUGO, put emphasize on command and control/friction and be reasonably streamlined. Team Yankee and Cold War Commander thus don't seem to scratch the itch for me.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: bayonetbrant on December 20, 2022, 01:28:57 PM
Unfortunately, Proving Ground Games seem to have closed up shop, as their modern minis rules are/were pretty good.  Maybe you can find them on the secondary market?
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on December 20, 2022, 02:58:59 PM
Fields of Fire (https://www.wargamevault.com/product/131637/Fields-of-Fire?manufacturers_id=5400&filters=40103_40202_40011_0_0)?
Quickly gone through the free Fast Play Rules, seems to be a very classical approach?
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: bayonetbrant on December 20, 2022, 03:05:13 PM
Fields of Fire (https://www.wargamevault.com/product/131637/Fields-of-Fire?manufacturers_id=5400&filters=40103_40202_40011_0_0)?
Quickly gone through the free Fast Play Rules, seems to be a very classical approach?

that's the one.  Like I said, solid rules, but maybe not the innovations you're looking for
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on December 20, 2022, 03:21:20 PM
Thanks for the hint, I'll try to find some battle reports and stuff.
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: bayonetbrant on December 20, 2022, 03:43:32 PM
Force on Force might also work for you, but it's pretty low-scale, and maybe too low for what you want
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on December 20, 2022, 06:16:37 PM
Adding FiveCore Brigade Commander to the list, apparently streamlined for micro scale with some (randomized) reaction rules.
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on February 26, 2023, 09:53:26 AM
I have ... started something.

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/942862162156736513/1079087633373872178/IMG_20230225_174926.jpg)
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: Tolstoi on February 26, 2023, 10:16:28 AM
I have ... started something.


Looks great! Is that GHQ Micro Armor?
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on February 26, 2023, 10:39:34 AM
Looks great! Is that GHQ Micro Armor?

Those are 3mm micro-scale minis. Mostly Oddzial Osmy figures (as I am in the EU I prefer ordering from them directly, if possible, but some packs weren't in stock, thus I had to order some from Magister Militum in the UK, in the US PicoArmor is the seller of those), some APCs customly 3D printed by a friend.
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: bayonetbrant on February 26, 2023, 10:56:22 AM
n the US PicoArmor is the seller of those
and will be with us at Origins! :)
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: Tolstoi on February 26, 2023, 11:13:44 AM
Those are 3mm micro-scale minis. Mostly Oddzial Osmy figures (as I am in the EU I prefer ordering from them directly, if possible, but some packs weren't in stock, thus I had to order some from Magister Militum in the UK, in the US PicoArmor is the seller of those), some APCs customly 3D printed by a friend.

3 mm? Wow, the figs don't look that small in your pictures. I forgot PicoArmor has a modern line of figs too. Looking forward to learning what you have planned for those minis. Thanks for sharing!  :bigthumb: 
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on February 26, 2023, 12:04:19 PM
I am going to base them with one vehicle (plus infantry) as one platoon per 25mm² base.

I know some of the rules want infantry and IFV/APC on seperate bases, but that makes no sense to me. I have a number of rule sets on my harddrive. Probably going to merge different aspects of those together.
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: Ravensworth on March 01, 2023, 10:23:41 AM
Looks great! Is that GHQ Micro Armor?

Those are 3mm micro-scale minis. Mostly Oddzial Osmy figures (as I am in the EU I prefer ordering from them directly, if possible, but some packs weren't in stock, thus I had to order some from Magister Militum in the UK, in the US PicoArmor is the seller of those), some APCs customly 3D printed by a friend.
I love these Oddzial osmy figures, less expensive than GHQ but still recognizable! I hope you find a good ruleset. 7 Days to the river Rhine by Great Escape Games is my choice or Northag by the Plastic Soldier Company.
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on March 01, 2023, 05:17:11 PM
I am trying to find some more insight into NORTHAG gameplay, haven't found much so far. Can you point me somewhere?
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: Ravensworth on March 02, 2023, 04:25:26 AM
I am trying to find some more insight into NORTHAG gameplay, haven't found much so far. Can you point me somewhere?
The following is a great review and overview of the game. https://nodicenoglory.com/2020/04/06/battlegroup-northag-a-mighty-fine-new-set-of-rules-for-wwiii/ (https://nodicenoglory.com/2020/04/06/battlegroup-northag-a-mighty-fine-new-set-of-rules-for-wwiii/) Also if you have played any of the WWII Battlegroup games there are some familiar mechanics but it is not Battlegroup WWIII. I hope this link will help.

Also Cold War Commander is a decent set of rules with tons of reviews.
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on March 12, 2023, 08:10:04 PM
I am trying to get hold of Dartfrog's "Brigade Combat Team (http://dartfrog06mm.blogspot.com/2017/07/operational-design-in-wargaming-part-6.html)".

Meanwhile some progress on the Brigades. They are not all at nominal strength and some modells are missing. There's infantry for all of them, too, but I wanted to get the OOBs sorted first.

USA Mechanized Infantry Brigade
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/803231319290544159/1084607597937709156/IMG_20230312_233944.jpg)

FRG Panzergrenadierbrigade
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/803231319290544159/1084607598357123122/IMG_20230312_233921.jpg)

CCCP Motor Rifle Regiment
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/803231319290544159/1084607598604591174/IMG_20230312_233752.jpg)
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on March 13, 2023, 11:52:37 AM
Contemplating to stock up the independent soviet forces to another full Tank Regiment and adding in the missing 3rd Motor Rifle Battalion, as well as the FRG Mixed PzGren Battalion ... maybe i finish those and the terrain baords first.  ;D
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: bayonetbrant on March 13, 2023, 01:05:39 PM
Keep in mind that the US Army transitioned orbats in the 1980s from the older M60/M113-based units to the new M1/M2-based units

Depending on which this are, that also dramatically changes your div cav squadron
The one you have here is a cav squadron from one of the ACRs, but it's not the same as what you'd have in the division, b/c you're missing their aviation assets, and they don't have a standalone tank company

Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on March 14, 2023, 09:40:00 AM
As did almost everyone, which makes it a pain to figure out who used what exactly when.

I figured, it'll be alright to have some variations as implementation took some time.

At least I have some Cobras down there in the corner.

Anyways, the OOB I have at hand might be wrong, then. What would a divisional M1/M2 Armored Cavalry Squadron look like?
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on March 14, 2023, 04:46:30 PM
Ah, got it, I switched to the wrong column. That means: No tanks. And some Kiowa Scout Helos. Got it.
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: bayonetbrant on May 24, 2023, 08:39:23 PM
Did you ever check over at One Page Rules to see if they had anything?

Did you find something you like? Or are you just going to home brew something together?
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on May 25, 2023, 08:14:20 AM
Dartfrog seems to have greenlighted my comment on his blog meanwhile at least, but hasn't answered yet, unfortunately. Would have been very curious to take a look at those. Whatever state they might be in.

I have a few at hand which I will give a try. None hooked me fully, though. Thus, I will be melting them together, I think.

I am currently waiting for some more 3D printed vehicles for the WP forces, which I have increased to a second full regiment. They should finally arrive within the next few days, so that I can get that finished.
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: PeterRobbins on June 02, 2023, 12:04:24 AM
I'd recommend either Modern Armor 2.3 or A Fistful Of Tows 3. I lean towards Modern Armor 2.3, as well, I know the author now and play it with him on the regular, but FFT3 is quite good as well. I've yet to play Cold War Commander, but Tom N. of late has recommended them to me. That was mentioned above by other folks.

https://www.wargamevault.com/product/222432/Modern-Armor-2nd-Edition
https://www.wargamevault.com/product/210575/Cold-War-Commander
https://www.wargamevault.com/product/89086/A-Fistful-of-TOWs-3

You honestly can't go wrong with Modern Armor 2.3, as it's 5$ and it's quite good. Walter is very knowledgeable on the subject.
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: bayonetbrant on June 02, 2023, 06:14:05 AM
FWIW, I think FFT is what they use at the Command & General Staff College (although simplified a bit to streamline for time)
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on June 02, 2023, 12:53:56 PM
I do have the FFT rules as PDF. They appear a bit too granualr to me, but maybe I just have to extract the elements I need and streamline them a bit as well. Are James and Mike using them at the CGSC? I could hit them up to take a look at their version.

Mordern Armor doesn't really fit my scale.

Did also take a look at Cold War Commander, which, with some tweaks, could indeed be an option. I've seen some reviews pointing out that the first edition is somewhat better than the second, btw, but I haven't compared them myself. Let me know when you play it, I might join or at least watch, in case you are streaming.
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: bayonetbrant on June 02, 2023, 01:35:45 PM
Are James and Mike using them at the CGSC?

Mainly Mike, but yeah.  I'd check with him for their alterations to it.
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on June 02, 2023, 02:47:20 PM
Will do, thanks!
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on July 14, 2023, 08:15:24 AM
Finally some more progress ...

The brigades are done. Bases flocked. Did just spray varnish them after taking these shots and now they are sitting to dry. Then, applying the rotors to the choppers and some little signs to identify them, and they are ready to go.

Not the best photo, but here they all are.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/697819148952010804/1129383193401888849/IMG_20230714_135200.jpg)

Some Warsaw Pact tanks.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/697819148952010804/1129383193754206248/IMG_20230714_135226.jpg)

Some US-REFORGER units.
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/942862162156736513/1129384415584337961/IMG_20230714_135221.jpg)

I'll try to take some better pictures with an actual camera, once they are out of the basement.
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: bayonetbrant on July 14, 2023, 08:36:28 AM
You might have said somewhere up the thread, but is each base a platoon, or a company?

What did you decide to do for terrain on the table?
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on July 14, 2023, 01:57:27 PM
Each base is a platoon.

I am working on my modular terrain tiles, right now. Guess I'll have to alter them to square tiles, makes more sense, and having a few more would be good as well.
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: thecommandtent on July 14, 2023, 08:51:42 PM
Very cool minis!
Title: Re: Later Cold War Rules Lookout
Post by: LetsPlayHistory on July 15, 2023, 08:59:09 AM
Thanks, CT!