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Wargaming => The Modern World => Topic started by: Boyerwulf on March 13, 2023, 09:46:43 AM

Title: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Boyerwulf on March 13, 2023, 09:46:43 AM
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Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on March 13, 2023, 10:33:03 AM
Very cool! Thanks fer the heads up.  :bigthumb:
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on March 13, 2023, 01:01:38 PM
Wishlisted - that looks great
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: TTC on March 13, 2023, 08:17:34 PM
I really like hex and counter games, but I'm not generally a fan of RTS or CDG computer games.

But this looks like an interesting concept. I am definitely intrigued -- but I am leery that this is on the gamier side of the simulation-game spectrum.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 02, 2023, 11:49:38 AM
Out on the 4th - still excited
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 02, 2023, 12:12:47 PM
 :bigthumb:
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Tolstoi on May 04, 2023, 12:02:09 PM
I know from reading the SGS website other games in their catalog (https://strategygamestudio.com/sgs-rules/multiplayer/number-of-players-and-multiplayer/) are multiplayer via pbem; however, the Steam page (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1849360/SGS_NATOs_Nightmare/) for NATO's Nightmare only states, "Single-player; Shared/Split Screen PvP; Remote play together". Does that mean no pbem? If this means playing a hot seat game on the same PC only, then forget it. I'd rather play another other Cold War goes hot wargame, like NATO: Next War by Maxwell, either the original or the update, than hot seat a computer game. Fingers crossed pbem is already there, or in the works.  :fingerscrossed:
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 04, 2023, 01:01:41 PM
£19

Bargain - was expecting some high end price
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 04, 2023, 01:26:47 PM
I know from reading the SGS website other games in their catalog (https://strategygamestudio.com/sgs-rules/multiplayer/number-of-players-and-multiplayer/) are multiplayer via pbem; however, the Steam page (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1849360/SGS_NATOs_Nightmare/) for NATO's Nightmare only states, "Single-player; Shared/Split Screen PvP; Remote play together". Does that mean no pbem? If this means playing a hot seat game on the same PC only, then forget it. I'd rather play another other Cold War goes hot wargame, like NATO: Next War by Maxwell, either the original or the update, than hot seat a computer game. Fingers crossed pbem is already there, or in the works.  :fingerscrossed:

ive only booted it up to confirm its installed ok but there is an option in the set up called 'play by email' for you to enter username and email address
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 04, 2023, 03:00:15 PM
On my way to get it now.

Let me know when you want a game.  ;)
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 04, 2023, 04:30:45 PM
On my way to get it now.

Let me know when you want a game.  ;)

Sure - I have a couple of tutorials to watch - this is my first sgs game but up for that 👍
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 04, 2023, 06:57:04 PM
Also my first. Fired up one of the “smaller” scenarios and was impressed by the depth but very, very lost.  :whistle:

Need to read and learn before we battle.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 04, 2023, 07:49:33 PM
Definitely - I sense a marker pen and written notes are in the future
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Tolstoi on May 04, 2023, 08:12:06 PM
ive only booted it up to confirm its installed ok but there is an option in the set up called 'play by email' for you to enter username and email address

Excellent! Thank you for letting us know. Please keep us posted on how your game goes and what you think the pbem system.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 05, 2023, 07:23:51 AM
Small update today adds game specific tutorial videos - enjoying mechanics so far

Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: TTC on May 05, 2023, 09:40:37 AM
I downloaded it last night.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: BanzaiCat on May 05, 2023, 11:06:58 AM
Are you guys liking it?

I'd had my eye on both SGS North Africa and SGS Halls of Montezuma. I just saw SGS Pacific last night and am sorely tempted by that one. This one (NATO's Nightmare) sounds a bit more detailed. I'm not sure I'm sold on card play, but it does look intriguing.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 05, 2023, 11:13:26 AM
Still going thru tutorials until I can really get my teeth into this weekend

Must do all I can to prevent embarrassing defeat to BH
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 05, 2023, 07:18:24 PM
Still going thru tutorials until I can really get my teeth into this weekend

Must do all I can to prevent embarrassing defeat to BH

 ;D

Yeah, I’m trying to do the same thing.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 06, 2023, 06:39:15 AM
should have spotted the time length of each tutorial  - only a couple of minutes each - ive done all those, watching a lets play - i guess im ready to go when you are
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 06, 2023, 12:12:50 PM
I'm nowhere ready... unless you want to have "flailing about" game.  ;D

Are we going to make this mess.. err... game available for public amusement?   :whistle:

Just playing some today and my CENTAG Soviet push was easily crushed by the AI...  :Loser: Can't figure out if I can retreat manually from a losing battle. Any ideas?
I need to read more about the actual combat mechanics as I was terrible out gunned in most of the battles even though I thought I had sent lots of power/units.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 06, 2023, 12:19:04 PM
I suppose we should have a practice or two in private - I’m a jump on at the deep end guy - haven’t pressed a thing yet - I’ll run a scenario this weekend and see how badly I do - you running as NATO?
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 06, 2023, 12:44:28 PM
Just Pact so far.

I like jumping in too but there are some mechanics that will need some reading up on.

One thing I'm finding a bit odd right now is that Air movement comes before Land movement. So you really have to plan out yer attacks ahead of time, like in the card phase,  if you want air support. Or have a good memory.... :whistle:
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 06, 2023, 12:49:28 PM
If you go to the games steam page and click on discussions there’s a big old bit on air movement with the dev explaining a lot

Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Tolstoi on May 06, 2023, 01:57:06 PM
Are we going to make this mess.. err... game available for public amusement?   :whistle:

From the rouges gallery comes a definite and loud, "Yes Please!!"  :bigthumb:

And I totally understand if you both would rather a chance to learn the game before sharing your experiences. The game looks very interesting and I have way to many other games I want to play before I consider purchasing this, so reading what you two think of the game and watching how it plays out would be very nice. Whatever you decide, I hope you both have fun.  :)




Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 06, 2023, 02:47:34 PM
I think it’s just a case of getting to grips with the UI and understanding some basics
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 06, 2023, 04:03:29 PM
If you go to the games steam page and click on discussions there’s a big old bit on air movement with the dev explaining a lot

Will do.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 07, 2023, 09:29:15 AM
Dear Lord there’s some highly detailed explanations on there that you wouldn’t know without reading it m

Are you practicing with basic or advanced?
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 07, 2023, 09:30:40 AM
Yeah, read the air power thread and only comprehended about half... might have been the wine interfering though.

So far I'm playing basic.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 07, 2023, 10:29:48 AM
Did you also find these "rules" pages in the Options menu? It leads to the following web pages: https://strategygamestudio.com/sgs-rules/
It says for Afirka Korps game but they are all similar. Not a bad read.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 07, 2023, 10:40:32 AM
Ah ok that might be handy - baffled by combat and the dice rolling at the moment! 😜
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 07, 2023, 12:04:06 PM
Ah ok that might be handy - baffled by combat and the dice rolling at the moment! 😜

Same here, even after reading everything I've found so far.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 08, 2023, 07:54:35 AM
Did you also find these "rules" pages in the Options menu? It leads to the following web pages: https://strategygamestudio.com/sgs-rules/
It says for Afirka Korps game but they are all similar. Not a bad read.

thats more helpful than i hoped - some good stuff in there

the guy that did the ingame tutorials, who did a botched pre release lets play on youtube as the AI kept faltering on its card choices so he had to skip the opening turns has started a fresh PACT game

&t=29s
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 08, 2023, 09:47:12 AM
Yep, watched that one last night. Good but doesn't really go into details of what's going on and why.

I still can't figure out how to tell what a unit's rate of fire is/will be. Or what the die roll numbers are supposed to be lower than. In the basic game there are not many smaller units that are used to modify larger units like in the advanced game so the base unit values are important but some seem to be hidden...

Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 08, 2023, 09:49:47 AM
Is there anything in the afrika rules set explaining it?
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 08, 2023, 10:18:16 AM
Not that I could see.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 08, 2023, 10:39:35 AM
OK found this stuff... need to stop reading at night after wine.  ::)

From pdf of draft written rules for SGS games:
Quote
In a battle round, one die (at least, may change with firepower) is rolled for each unit:
     * If the result is inferior or equal to the modified combat factor, the unit inflicts one hit to the opposing side.
     * If the result is higher than the modified combat factor, nothing happens.
     A result of 0 always inflicts a hit (no matter what modifiers apply).

And this from the web pages rules for Afirka Korps:
Quote
In a battle, each combat unit fires as many times as its ROF (Rate of Fire) allows, which is usually 2 for Division-sized units and 1 for all others.
This is independent to the number of steps it has, but the combat strength is usually lower for units that have lost 50% or more of their strength.
Elite units (showing a nice little medal on their counters) may re-roll if they failed to hit on their first rolls.

But I can't find what Rate of Fire is in Nato's Nightmare, because I've seen units take way more than 2 shots.

I guess I'll go post on the discussions.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 08, 2023, 10:49:59 AM
And got a quick response from the developer:

Quote
The details will be explained in the manual. In this game, to incorporate modern warfare and multi-type weapons, the ROF can be higher.

Not exactly helpful.  :dunno:
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 08, 2023, 02:54:09 PM
Oh  :idiot2:

To be explained later I guess
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 09, 2023, 03:35:48 AM
I’ve had a thought……..

Until we’re seasoned pros and can smash the game do you want to pick a side bow and then we o it have to learn the intricacies of half the game so to speak
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 09, 2023, 06:49:48 AM
Sure. I'm OK playing either side but I have been playing the Pact a lot so far so would be happy to stay with them.
I'm gonna be offline for the next few days but we could start a trial game on say Monday. Does that work for you?
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 09, 2023, 06:52:10 AM
Sounds great

Happy to NATO

I’ve been using advanced set ups - you fancy basic to start?
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 09, 2023, 07:20:06 AM
Oooo advanced game. Smarty pants.  :notworthy:

Yeah, I'd like to try the basic game first.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 09, 2023, 09:20:43 AM
Oooo advanced game. Smarty pants.  :notworthy:

Yeah, I'd like to try the basic game first.

Only cos I like all the fancy counters
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 09, 2023, 09:56:34 AM
I’m using the NATO counters.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 09, 2023, 07:56:15 PM
All that fancy artwork for nothing!

I don’t know what the pbem sequence is - I know for WitP it had to be the Japanese that started it off

I’ll put my details in and see if it says nope it must be the pact first - pm me your email address and we’ll see what happens Monday
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 09, 2023, 08:28:31 PM
PM sent.
Pretty sure that the Pact needs to start things off.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: BanzaiCat on May 10, 2023, 08:40:47 AM
I started watching that video you guys posted...dude went all in with nukes and chemical weapons, that's awesome.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: TTC on May 10, 2023, 06:43:57 PM
I messed around with this a bit last night.

I really don't like the card play, especially in a wargame -- and especially when it seems like so many of the cards seem like semi-scripted auto-plays.

And I really struggled to grok the gameplay. I mean, as the WP, I need to advance nearly all of my armies forward into WG, right? Provide maximum air support... Beyond that, I don't know where the real gameplay is.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 10, 2023, 09:14:44 PM
Short of advancing into NATO with everything you’ve got and providing air cover for it I don’t know what else you need for oact ganeplay - that’s essentially the point of the game I guess

Like the Japanese in WitP - take all the islands beat the US 🤷‍♂️
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: TTC on May 10, 2023, 10:33:58 PM
Short of advancing into NATO with everything you’ve got and providing air cover for it I don’t know what else you need for oact ganeplay - that’s essentially the point of the game I guess

Like the Japanese in WitP - take all the islands beat the US 🤷‍♂️

Right, but where are the decisions to make, especially with area movement?

Select stack next to WG. Move it into WG. Repeat for every stack that can reach WG.

Resolve combat.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 10, 2023, 11:41:38 PM
Get flanked by NATO?

Nato breakthrough?

Nato win air superiority?

Nato reinforce Denmark and break into northern area?

I’m sure the first few turns are all about rushing into west Germany and taking the cities before the allies can reinforce them but I thought that was the point of the war
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 12, 2023, 08:12:17 AM
PM sent.
Pretty sure that the Pact needs to start things off.

played basic norbag scenario - nato have had their turn, now on my air movement turn - holy shit theres a lot that goes on - ive pretty much slowed the dice down enough to see whats been rolled and why, a black is a miss and a yellow is a hit, dont see what the dice are actually rolling against but ill find out and i dont see how many hits my units are able to absorb before dying - again ill find out

going to try and mass my air power into a few big stacks and try and gain local air superiority - well see what happens next

new patch today - bit of balancing and optimising i think
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: BanzaiCat on May 12, 2023, 11:07:25 AM
I'd love to see a remake of the classic Red Lightning. I spent a lot of time on that back in the day. It had hex-based movement and generalized air power, so nothing that bogged you down too far. I do like that this game (NATO's Nightmare) has a similar general resolution to the Norway/northern battles and that you can commit resources to it, just like in Red Lightning. If I remember right in RL, as the WP, you had to take Norway, then you could assault Iceland, all the while the battle for the north Atlantic raged on.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 12, 2023, 11:51:28 AM
If you play against the AI in nightmare it chooses from 4 random play styles - I’ve seen the deck it’s chosen and it has Norway and Denmark in its sights
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: BanzaiCat on May 12, 2023, 12:54:32 PM
I think I'd still rather do the SGS Pacific game, or maybe Halls of Montezuma - only because Halls reminds me of a very old RUN 5 game that I used to play on my grandfather's Apple IIc.

Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 14, 2023, 11:02:23 AM
New video up of a pbem start - very handy
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 15, 2023, 09:10:43 PM
New video up of a pbem start - very handy

Where did yo find this video?
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 15, 2023, 09:12:59 PM
OK trial PBEM game started... let's see how long it takes to blow up the world.  :silly:
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 16, 2023, 12:13:22 AM
New video up of a pbem start - very handy

Where did yo find this video?

&t=268s

In the comments section theres also a link to the nato players turn
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 16, 2023, 12:15:42 AM
OK trial PBEM game started... let's see how long it takes to blow up the world.  :silly:

received - had an hour of off/on/off/on/off/swear/on with the received file - my fault for opening it - dont do anything to it other than download the attachment and drop into the allocated location for pbems

ill start an AAR once things are a bit more exciting than card picking
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 16, 2023, 08:35:45 AM
Ya, seems I might have found a bug that caused me to restart the turn a couple of times.
During the Reinforcement phase you can get air units stuck in stacks with land units. Then you can never separate them and the land units can't move.  :doh:
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 17, 2023, 08:47:48 PM
So, I'm not reading/posting in 'Geek's AAR... so short update from my side, this turn he FRAKIN NUKED me!  :tickedoff:  NATO must be desperate.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: BanzaiCat on May 17, 2023, 10:12:38 PM
"Better glowing red then just plain red" - a NATO general, probably
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 17, 2023, 10:27:08 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on May 19, 2023, 12:55:07 PM
Ooops - me and BH broke it - so keen to unleash untold atrocities on each other were we that we crashed through the nuclear index counter and instigated nuclear war - the game ended with a NATO victory

I’ll update the pbem with details
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on May 19, 2023, 03:45:32 PM
Designer stated that if the Tension Index rose too much it will trigger an all out nuclear war. This will also give NATO the victory because, according to the designer, the Soviets were less prepared for it.  :whistle:

I think this should be changed to whomever pushes the TI over the top loses.

That might well have been me in this game.  :doh:
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: ojsdad on June 29, 2023, 04:54:29 PM
Steam Summer sale started. NATO Nightmare is 20% off.
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on July 21, 2023, 08:09:35 AM
Last update says there's now a manual specifically for this game... But I can't find it anywhere? Anyone know where it is?
 ???
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Undercovergeek on July 21, 2023, 09:08:16 AM
Is it off game on a site somewhere like the other ones are?
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on July 21, 2023, 10:49:58 AM
Couldn’t find it….
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Grim.Reaper on July 21, 2023, 12:54:36 PM
Couldn’t find it….

Believe all the manuals are in the following folder, which I do see one called SGS NATO Specific Rules.pdf

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\SGSNATOsNightmare\Scenarios\NATOsNightmare\PDF
Title: Re: NATO's Nightmare
Post by: Barthheart on July 21, 2023, 04:17:59 PM
Couldn’t find it….

Believe all the manuals are in the following folder, which I do see one called SGS NATO Specific Rules.pdf

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\SGSNATOsNightmare\Scenarios\NATOsNightmare\PDF

Bingo! Thanks for the heads up.  :bigthumb: