Armchair Dragoons Forums

Wargaming => Age of Gunpowder => Topic started by: judgedredd on September 04, 2020, 02:27:22 PM

Title: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: judgedredd on September 04, 2020, 02:27:22 PM
I know there's battles out there - and I love Battle Hymn Gettysburg. I was eyeing Shiloh and Antietam just recently - but then I wondered - what about a full on Civil War game?

So - what options for the entire American Civil War are out there. This isn't normally my scale - but I was wondering if there's something along the lines of that old Matrix game...Forge of Freedom.

Also - as with my normal requirements, it needs to be a game from the last decade - maybe 15 years but absolutely no more than 20 years old ...I always like to look for quality of components as well as game.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: judgedredd on September 04, 2020, 02:30:57 PM
NM - found this

https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/22451/top-30-ranked-american-civil-war-games-bgg

Although a lot of this list are battles.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: bbmike on September 04, 2020, 02:33:08 PM
Oh, no! Don't never mind! Good question and it will be interesting to hear thoughts about it.
As for me, I have this on P500 order: GMT The US Civil War, 2nd Printing (https://www.gmtgames.com/p-729-the-us-civil-war-2nd-printing.aspx)
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 04, 2020, 02:35:00 PM
Are you talking about board games?

Most folks would tell you the gold standard is still the old VG "The Civil War 1861-1865" but it's old and can be hard to find

There are a lot of folks that are fond of "For The People"

"A House Divided" had its adherents back in the day, but no idea how the Phalanx Games' reprint stacks up to the original.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: judgedredd on September 04, 2020, 02:35:21 PM
Oh, no! Don't never mind! Good question and it will be interesting to hear thoughts about it.
As for me, I have this on P500 order: GMT The US Civil War, 2nd Printing (https://www.gmtgames.com/p-729-the-us-civil-war-2nd-printing.aspx)
Nice  :bigthumb:

I'm going to read up on this one. It seems like a good fit and apparently is pretty solo friendly as long as you "play both sides to the best of your ability" - which is a basic requirement being a solo board gamer.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: judgedredd on September 04, 2020, 02:37:46 PM
This seems like a possibility

This is the first game I looked at in that list and this was the first picture I saw...

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50305053793_b24aecf2d4_o.jpg)

It's got my dice tower!!! That's got to mean something - it can't be coincidence surely?

But...unfortunately it's not solo - not even close looking through it
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: bbmike on September 04, 2020, 02:56:00 PM
(http://www.aarcentral.com/emoti/new/sigh.gif)

1) ANY game can be played solo
2) Stuka Joe developed a Solo Method for CDGs:
     CDG SOLO METHOD: Original Method v. New Method (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3r7gSZuG2E)
     The Madness Behind a CDG Solo Method (http://www.insidegmt.com/2016/05/the-madness-behind-a-cdg-solo-method/)
3) See 1

Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: judgedredd on September 04, 2020, 03:06:12 PM
Are you talking about board games?

Most folks would tell you the gold standard is still the old VG "The Civil War 1861-1865" but it's old and can be hard to find

There are a lot of folks that are fond of "For The People"

"A House Divided" had its adherents back in the day, but no idea how the Phalanx Games' reprint stacks up to the original.
Sorry Brant - I missed your post.

Yes - boardgaming.

I'm looking at either picking up a used first edition of The US Civil War or risk another pre-order from Second Chance Games on a 2nd Edition.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: bob48 on September 04, 2020, 03:13:01 PM
'The Civil War' by Victory Games was good, although obviously long OOP. There may still be used copies about.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 04, 2020, 03:18:26 PM
NM - found this

https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/22451/top-30-ranked-american-civil-war-games-bgg

Although a lot of this list are battles.

that's also an older list...  like, over a decade old
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: judgedredd on September 04, 2020, 04:55:12 PM
Yeah I noticed that once i started reading
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 04, 2020, 06:41:30 PM
Seconding Mike's recommendation for Stuka Joe's CDG method. Very simple to use and great because it works for just about anything card-driven.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: Bison on September 04, 2020, 07:34:10 PM
Both Civil War and For the People published by GMT are fantastic games. If table space is an issue, just know the board for Civil War is two full boards in size. Really good game that does use cards for activations for the theater movements/combat. For the People is a better game IMHO. However, you will have to either use Joes method or just accept the loss of hidden information.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 04, 2020, 07:37:26 PM
JD, maybe look at Rebel Raiders on the High Seas. I got my copy to the table a week or so ago and it was quite fun. Card-driven, mainly concerned with CSA raiders and blockade runners trying to earn VP for the South while the Union navy tries to stop them. Besides that it does cover the land campaign, though abstractly; includes forts, river movement, city capture, arsenals at Richmond and Atlanta, and Batteries as well. I like the abstract-ness of the land campaign and the map should not cause you any issues (22" x 34"). I think it's strategic, though it's more like strategic-lite.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/38805/rebel-raiders-high-seas

https://www.gmtgames.com/p-238.aspx?searchEngineName=rebel-raiders-on-the-high-seas
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: thecommandtent on September 04, 2020, 09:09:05 PM
Oh, no! Don't never mind! Good question and it will be interesting to hear thoughts about it.
As for me, I have this on P500 order: GMT The US Civil War, 2nd Printing (https://www.gmtgames.com/p-729-the-us-civil-war-2nd-printing.aspx)

I've heard very good things about this game and am inching closer to adding a P500 order myself.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: bbmike on September 04, 2020, 09:35:36 PM
DO IT!
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 04, 2020, 09:44:55 PM
I dood it :(
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: bbmike on September 04, 2020, 10:52:41 PM
 :bigthumb:
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: Achilles on September 19, 2021, 03:39:10 PM
I used to play War Between The States, long ago and enjoyed it. I have acquired For The People more recently and found it very accessible and fun, without the time and space investment. Some of the other games mentioned here seem interesting too so I will need to check those out.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: Boyerwulf on September 24, 2021, 09:40:29 AM
  In my humble opinion For The People is the best Strategic Civil War Game ever.

 It is number one, playable. It does not get bogged down in rules minutia, and abstracts a lot of things like the Blockade, River Control, etc. While not a beer and pretzel game, it is not so complex as Mark Hermans other card driven game Empire of the Sun.

 The game just really captures the feel of the CIvil War, helped much by it's card driven system which adds much flavor. The map being point to point also does a great job of simulating the logistics, and chokepoints faced by commanders at the time.

 Now Victory Games Civil War used to be my favorite and is still a great game in it's own right, especially with the updated community rules. But it  is a little more detailed, and not as easy to play over a few days. It really does do a great job with showing how important leaders were in battle, and showing how good corp commanders (Hood), do not necessarily make good Army commanders. Matter of fact I have hoarded 3 copies of this game I am so fond of it, and think it was the best game Victory Games put out( with NATO, and The Korean War close seconds).

 The new GMT Civil War I have not played much since it's initial release. It has since gotten updated rules. Two things that bothered me were the leader effects on battles seemed very minimal. Also the strict timeline of when commanders entered and left the game, seemed like something that could be gamed out by the player. As compared to the other two games where leaders can die (rarely) in any battle they participate in. I should revisit this game, but the other two being so damned good makes it hard to find the time.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: Ardwulf on September 24, 2021, 09:57:29 AM
The new GMT Civil War I have not played much since it's initial release. It has since gotten updated rules. Two things that bothered me were the leader effects on battles seemed very minimal. Also the strict timeline of when commanders entered and left the game, seemed like something that could be gamed out by the player. As compared to the other two games where leaders can die (rarely) in any battle they participate in. I should revisit this game, but the other two being so damned good makes it hard to find the time.

US Civil War's leader schedule was intended to directly address the demonstrable history of gaming the leader system in the predecessor games. (whether it succeeds at this is debatable.) Leaders might "rarely" die, but I've played games where Grant and Lee both end up dead - Grant in his first battle. It seems statistically improbable but you're making enough rolls that it happens with some regularity.

That aside, while I prefer US Civil War or VG Civil War for taste reasons, For the People is outstanding.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 24, 2021, 10:08:30 AM
According to Gene's monthly GMT email that went out yesterday, the reprint of The US Civil War is at the printers now, but there's no release date yet.

they've been stymied like everyone else by the shipping glut outside of ports. I admit I had no idea what was up with that, so I went reading yesterday. I don't think the news sources even really know, themselves. (Gene talked about this briefly in his email.)

Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: Boyerwulf on September 24, 2021, 10:15:43 AM
US Civil War's leader schedule was intended to directly address the demonstrable history of gaming the leader system in the predecessor games. (whether is succeeds at this is debatable.) Leaders might "rarely" die, but I've played games where Grant and Lee both end up dead - Grant in his first battle. It seems statistically improbably but you're making enough rolls that it happens with some regularity.

That aside, while I prefer US Civil War or VG Civil War for taste reasons, For the People is outstanding.


 
 While I have limited opportunity to play with them, I believe the community/unofficial rules tried to address those concerns of gaming the leader system.
 
https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/52068/unofficial-rules-revision

 You made me think of the fact that Grant was minutes away in May of 1864 from being captured by Mosby's Raiders, when he was taking an unguarded train back from Washington DC to his HQ during the Overland Campaign. It's a what if like that, that makes us play wargames. Obviously as you note many players try to game the system. So it is up to the designer to make it difficult to game, while at the same time leaving that element of chance. Not an easy thing to do.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 24, 2021, 10:21:45 AM
[quote author=BanzaiCat link=topic=2417.msg78239#msg78239 date=1632492510they've been stymied like everyone else by the shipping glut outside of ports. I admit I had no idea what was up with that, so I went reading yesterday.[/quote]

 :waiting:
https://www.armchairdragoons.com/news/global-shippings-impact-on-tabletop-gaming/
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 24, 2021, 12:24:13 PM
I hardly ever read my own articles!  :)

Also, DVG recently announced a 'General Lee Leader' type game. Can't find a link to post; saw it in their FB thread.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: W8taminute on September 24, 2021, 02:38:32 PM
Oh, no! Don't never mind! Good question and it will be interesting to hear thoughts about it.
As for me, I have this on P500 order: GMT The US Civil War, 2nd Printing (https://www.gmtgames.com/p-729-the-us-civil-war-2nd-printing.aspx)

I own this game and like it a lot.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: Ardwulf on September 24, 2021, 03:08:09 PM
You made me think of the fact that Grant was minutes away in May of 1864 from being captured by Mosby's Raiders, when he was taking an unguarded train back from Washington DC to his HQ during the Overland Campaign. It's a what if like that, that makes us play wargames. Obviously as you note many players try to game the system. So it is up to the designer to make it difficult to game, while at the same time leaving that element of chance. Not an easy thing to do.

Definitely. It's a tough design decision; US Civil War chose to use the locked schedule, but lots of folks felt that sucks flavor out of the game and creates a situation which is not necessarily less "game-able". I avoid the question by liking both games; US Civil War is much more streamlined without losing much detail except with the leader system.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: bbmike on September 24, 2021, 03:26:30 PM
According to Gene's monthly GMT email that went out yesterday, the reprint of The US Civil War is at the printers now, but there's no release date yet.

they've been stymied like everyone else by the shipping glut outside of ports. I admit I had no idea what was up with that, so I went reading yesterday. I don't think the news sources even really know, themselves. (Gene talked about this briefly in his email.)

If it's at the printer that's excellent news!  :bigthumb:
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: ojsdad on September 24, 2021, 06:42:20 PM
Unless the printer is in China. The backlog of ships waiting to offload in Long Beach and LA keeps growing.
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 24, 2021, 09:09:15 PM
Yeah, I think all their games come from China.

I saw yesterday the backlog is 62 ships right now at the LA port?  :o
Title: Re: Best Strategic Civil War Board Game
Post by: bbmike on September 24, 2021, 09:20:59 PM
Unless the printer is in China. The backlog of ships waiting to offload in Long Beach and LA keeps growing.

 :(
Well, at least it's move along the chain a little. I try to take a little comfort in that.