Stellaris

[Steelie]

The thing about Stellaris, which for awhile there was a leading contender for my favorite sci-fi 4x, is that every damn time I go to play a game it's a new game! I don't have the freaking patience for that nonsense, as evidenced by my enormous backlog of unplayed Steam games. Once I learn a game, I don't want to have to relearn it every time I boot it up.

[Martok]

The thing about Stellaris, which for awhile there was a leading contender for my favorite sci-fi 4x, is that every damn time I go to play a game it's a new game! I don't have the freaking patience for that nonsense, as evidenced by my enormous backlog of unplayed Steam games. Once I learn a game, I don't want to have to relearn it every time I boot it up.

That is admittedly a very good point -- one that will likely work in favor of GC4 and DW2.  Not only will both those games probably *not* be subjected to periodical, major re-works like Stellaris (and most other Paradox titles), but they'll also probably have gentler learning curves -- GalCiv4, especially.  (I hope & expect DW2 will be easier to "pick up and play" than its predecessor, but of course that actually remains to be seen.) 




I want to be clear, by the way, that I don't have a particular dog in this fight:  For as much as I currently enjoy Stellaris, I certainly won't be sad if either Distant Worlds 2 or GalCiv4 ends up becoming my new favorite 4x when they're released.  I suspect the main reason I'm playing devil's advocate as to why they might *not* do so, is so as to guard myself against expecting/hoping for too much... 

[Steelie]

Nah, I don't take you as having a dog in the fight, Martok. You love the genre and you're definitely one of the "go-to" guys I listen to when it comes to sci fi games. I probably own and have played the majority of sci fi titles we discuss and I can't say I have a particular favorite. There are a lot of good games out there and more upcoming, but I haven't seen the "one game to rule them all" so far. Stellaris could'a/would'a/should'a and maybe still will come close. Won't know until they finally finish the damn game   

[ojsdad]

Kinda of bodes the question, does Paradox need a new engine for their games to  move to the next level?

[Martok]

Nah, I don't take you as having a dog in the fight, Martok. You love the genre and you're definitely one of the "go-to" guys I listen to when it comes to sci fi games. I probably own and have played the majority of sci fi titles we discuss and I can't say I have a particular favorite. There are a lot of good games out there and more upcoming, but I haven't seen the "one game to rule them all" so far. Stellaris could'a/would'a/should'a and maybe still will come close. Won't know until they finally finish the damn game   

Heh, thanks Steelie.  I try to be as honest in my assessment of games as I can, including/especially when it's a "good" game, but one that's not necessarily my personal cup of tea.  Likewise, I won't hesitate to criticize a game I really enjoy (Stellaris probably my #1 personal example ). 

I'll be very surprised if we ever see that "ultimate 4x to rule them all".  People's tastes are simply too varied for that to really be possible, and thank goodness for that!  If nothing else, it ensures the genre isn't forever spawning MOO2 clones/wanna-be's.   

As for Stellaris, I'm quite curious to see what it ends up looking in its "final form"...however long it takes for them to get there.  (At the rate things are going, I suspect we'll have to wait a good while yet!)   

[Martok]

Kinda of bodes the question, does Paradox need a new engine for their games to  move to the next level?

Absolutely, yes.  Although I want to say Paradox already came out with a new/upgraded engine a couple years ago(?).  I think they used it for Imperator and CK3. 

The question, of course, is will it be enough of an upgrade for Stellaris 2 to run smoothly?  And will it allow Stellaris 2 to have larger galaxies (since you know players are going to ask for that)? 

[Steelie]

I'll be very surprised if we ever see that "ultimate 4x to rule them all".  People's tastes are simply too varied for that to really be possible, and thank goodness for that!  If nothing else, it ensures the genre isn't forever spawning MOO2 clones/wanna-be's.   

Don't squash my dream, bro!   

[Martok]

Man, this game...  Stellaris has delivered two memorable experiences these past few days.  Both were related to excavation sites (one from the Ancient Relics DLC, the other one from a mod), and they couldn't have been more different. 


So as to avoid spoilers, I won't go into much detail.  But suffice it to say that the one experience gave me about the closest thing to a "jump scare" that I've ever had in a 4x game.  Seriously, it probably delayed my going to bed by around an hour because of the adrenaline rush.   

In contrast, the other left me a little shook and with a bit of a guilt complex.  I actually ended up quitting the game and not playing it again until the next day.    It was very well done, but good lord it was a mind-screw! 

[Martok]

Dev Diary #216 is up. 


Looks like the Necroids are definitely getting some more love too.  Necroids aren't my thing, but I'm happy for those who are fans. 


Moreover, this makes me suspect/presume that the Lithoids will be getting attention as well, given that the devs are already revisiting the Humanoids and Plantoids.  Looks like the Lem update will be one big rebalance/love letter to Stellaris' species packs...which is just fine by me.   

[Anguille]

You may be right, although it should perhaps be mentioned that the landscape was every different when GC2 came out. 

When Galactic Civilizations 2 was released, it was in the midst of a proverbial drought:  After the debacle of MOO3, the 4x genre was pretty much on life support for the remainder of the decade.  Civilization IV and GalCiv2 were the only major titles released during that time period, and so they ended up dominating the "game-space" pretty much by default. 

In contrast, GalCiv4 is being released in what is now (thankfully!) a renewed era for 4x games.  We have significantly more choices now than we did 15+ years ago, and Stardock is going to have to step it up if they truly want their flagship series to stand out.  That means not just introducing new features & mechanics, but also making the game feel "alive", and provide a sense of atmosphere & immersion -- something they've long struggled with.  Granted, not everyone needs that in their games, but many do. 

For all that Stellaris is aging, it retains the advantage of having a strong sense of atmosphere, of being able to generate a sense of story, etc., -- which is important to a lot of people who play it.  I think that if GalCiv4 is truly going to compete with it, then it has to at least come within spitting distance of matching that. 

Also, like I said before, let's not forget Distant Worlds 2.  For all that it won't have the same level of visibility (at least at release), it can definitely match Stellaris for the same level of atmosphere, immersion, and storyline elements.  Depending on how things pan out, I can see DW2 being another sleeper hit that surprises everyone. 

I fully agree with all what you say. I did not mention Distant Worlds 2 cos i don't think it will be able to drag every day 30'000 - 40'000 persons like Stellaris do. I have various 4x games i play that have at least the same level of atmosphere or immersion Stellaris has. Stellaris does shine in the storyline (even if it's heavily text-based) but i would say it's the only aspect it really does better than other 4x games.

[Anguille]

I'll be very surprised if we ever see that "ultimate 4x to rule them all". 

For me at least, when i played Master of Orion in 1993, it was the ultimate 4x and it still was for a very long time. It's still among my favourites. Birth of the Federation, while not perfect but with lots done right, was also my ultimate space 4x being the only Star Trek game.

Nowadays, i can't say which one is my ultimate 4x game. They all have positive aspects.

[Martok]

I fully agree with all what you say. I did not mention Distant Worlds 2 cos i don't think it will be able to drag every day 30'000 - 40'000 persons like Stellaris do. I have various 4x games i play that have at least the same level of atmosphere or immersion Stellaris has. Stellaris does shine in the storyline (even if it's heavily text-based) but i would say it's the only aspect it really does better than other 4x games.

For myself, I don't find it's the *only* thing it does better, but of course that's a matter of personal opinion.  However, I'll readily agree that storyline & narrative is the one thing Stellaris most obviously does better. 

For me at least, when i played Master of Orion in 1993, it was the ultimate 4x and it still was for a very long time. It's still among my favourites. Birth of the Federation, while not perfect but with lots done right, was also my ultimate space 4x being the only Star Trek game.

Nowadays, i can't say which one is my ultimate 4x game. They all have positive aspects.

To clarify, I meant the "ultimate" 4x game, in that there might be one that universally appeals to all 4x gamers.  I can't imagine that ever has, or ever will, happen. 


For me, Stellaris probably has become the closest I have to being my personal "ultimate" 4x game, despite its numerous flaws.  And of course, Birth of the Federation will always have a special place in my heart -- but you already knew that.   

[Anguille]

For myself, I don't find it's the *only* thing it does better, but of course that's a matter of personal opinion.  However, I'll readily agree that storyline & narrative is the one thing Stellaris most obviously does better. 

I've found that Interstellar did improve a lot in terms of storylines and events.

Which are the other things that Stellaris does better?

For me, Stellaris probably has become the closest I have to being my personal "ultimate" 4x game, despite its numerous flaws.  And of course, Birth of the Federation will always have a special place in my heart -- but you already knew that. 

Fully agree, there are just too many different tastes and preferences to have just one (space battle vs none; turn-based vs real-time; starlanes vs none etc.). On paper, Stellaris should be my ultimate 4x as well and i enjoy it a lot more than i did in the beginning but it's now a more than 200$ game that i enjoy equally to other 4x games that i paid 40$. It's a good game now (not perfect but a fairly good MOO copy) but don't really see where the additionnal 160$ went to.  All in all, i don't really have a favourite space 4x game right now and i find myself playing different games. In the last month, i've played the following games: Interstellar Space, Stellaris, Stars in Shadow, Imperium Galactica 2, GalCiv 3, Polaris Sector, Horizon etc. All good and different.

[Undercovergeek]

And then this happened - not sure if it’s been mentioned yet

By the long war people for xcom - part shadow empire, part Aurora with graphics

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W2rv1NvINMU

[bob48]

The ship design and building aspect looks interesting.