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Author Topic: "The Death Ride of Jean Lannes" -- Game Time Is...  (Read 80029 times)

Barthheart

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Reply #315 on: October 28, 2020, 04:02:34 PM
I have forgotten the RealTime date I departed the map, Summer/Fall 2018 maybe? ***EDIT Ah found it... July 2018.
I returned to the map in May 2020.
 :idiot2:
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 04:07:18 PM by Barthheart »

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JasonPratt

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Reply #316 on: October 28, 2020, 04:43:42 PM
Looking back over our pre-game discussions (which I may post up in a separate thread eventually for archiving purposes), I noticed just now that we had a third victory point goal of exiting forces off the west edge of the map.

Which we promptly ignored as unfeasible, except maybe as an option for the HindclawForce (the two small but elite Guard Corps at Munich) if things were going very well elsewhere, and we wanted to lock in some points to finish the game sooner.



Advocator (Scott)

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Reply #317 on: October 28, 2020, 05:02:05 PM
We won? Vive la France, etc., etc.

I'm looking quite forward to the videos. I'm especially looking forward to seeing how often I almost got into combat, how much I actually got in the way of things, and how things might have turned out at Rattisbonne had either the Austrians attacked me or vice versa. As it was, we stared at each other rather menacingly for... two days? Three? (I honestly don't remember and my email client decided to lose most my KS emails, so I can't even check anymore.) As I told Jim, would it not have been abusing the knowledge we had here that things were winding down, I was tempted to do something just to say I got in a fight. I even batted around the idea of asking whichever of the Austrians was staring at me if we wanted to arrange fisticuffs between some of our men just so we could say some blood was drawn...

The good news is, Jim agreed to run both the Austrians attacking me and me attacking the Austrians at Rattisbonne just to see what the results of either offensive would have amounted to. My guess is that me attacking would have been colossally stupid. You guys attacking me.... that I think may be more interesting.

Regardless, good times, everyone. I probably should have paid better attention to the other forums. Had I, I probably would have jumped into one of the other games starting up.



Hatricvs

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Reply #318 on: October 28, 2020, 05:13:14 PM
Well, well...I am struggling to believe what I am hearing ....we won! I truly believed that we had lost...colour me gobsmacked but very happy too....can't wait to see how this all actually happened. What an amazing game!



JasonPratt

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Reply #319 on: October 28, 2020, 10:02:11 PM
A subtle point from Cyrano/Jim's video occurred to me while I was eating dinner tonight, which might seem obvious to those of us who played, but I'll explain it for those who haven't played.

That lone French division sitting out by itself at an Isar River crossing in between Munich and the central Austrian spearhead? That division's a robot.

It's an NPC, a non-player character. Only the Corps Commanders (and above) can give orders in this particular campaign, because only the CorpsComs (and above) are actual human beings, Player Characters. That division is under command of the French player sitting on the river across from the Austria LowerJawForce, at least two maybe three or four hours away in game time, and divisions outside of direct communication of the Players have a very simple artificial intelligence (so to speak). This has to be done because otherwise the gamemaster (Cyrano in this case) could end up playing a lot of the pieces himself, against himself, with zero fog of war. So we're allowed to give detached divisions like this very simple commands: patrol this line back and forth, and send back reports of any contacts; or take this route to Passau and if it's empty get into the city and sit there, otherwise go up the road to the next town and sit there (obliterating or at least disrupting the Austrian supply chain). Or wait here at this bridge for further orders; if you see Austrians coming, report back; if they come across the bridge, withdraw toward here and send reports. Basically one to three basic instructions.

That's what this division is certainly doing, although I don't know for sure what his instructions are yet -- he's a robot sitting on the north side of the bridge with some simple orders, probably to watch out for and report trouble from us Austrians. But maybe he's got a simple order to head south (I couldn't tell if this was a cav division or not, but it wouldn't really matter except for speed and thus timing) to a certain town, and then follow another road to Passau, hashing our supply lines meanwhile (if not obliterating them). Or head south to a town, wait until this time next week (in the game) camping out, and then probe toward Munich, taking the city if available.

Either of those sacrificial probe actions could win the game for the French. Unless Cyrano has a rule about bot divisions self-destructing, in effect, if they get cut off from their own supply chain, which would make such a sacrificial probe more dicey. But maybe still worth the risk: they aren't going to lose the game from one small division being thrown away early on. (The divisions come in different sizes and morales.)


As an aside, we Austrians were never clear, and I'm still not (after the video!), how many divisions on Napoleon's side here are actually 'French' (and so who have those double-speed advantages) and how many are Germans/Prussians under French command (in which case they may move more like our speed). I mean, maybe we would know if we looked up the historical OOB for this operation, but we didn't.



Cyrano

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Reply #320 on: October 28, 2020, 10:40:14 PM
To your very last point, all "French" troops move as French.

Sergeant-at-Arms - Fraternite des Boutons Carres

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Weeple Herder to the Emperor


JasonPratt

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Reply #321 on: October 28, 2020, 11:25:19 PM
Interesting! -- one of our key assumptions was wrong, though I think in practice we ended up assuming they were all scooting around the map anyway (just to be safe).



JasonPratt

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Reply #322 on: October 29, 2020, 12:44:23 AM
BEHOLD! -- I have now posted up the Austrian side of the pre-game analysis and planning, in this separate thread!

https://www.armchairdragoons.com/forum/index.php?topic=2641.0

This includes the formal operational plan (eventually), and even more importantly the collaborative effort from my teammates on devising the op plan! -- which after all I mostly just synthesized together when they were done.  :notworthy:



Advocator (Scott)

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Reply #323 on: October 29, 2020, 08:23:33 AM
You guys seemed very, very prepared there... what happened?  :ROFL:



bayonetbrant

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Reply #324 on: October 29, 2020, 08:27:38 AM
You guys seemed very, very prepared there... what happened?  :ROFL:


quote from a corps update brief in Kandahar, circa 2004:   "We're on slide 116.  I wonder what the enemy is doing right now."

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JasonPratt

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Reply #325 on: October 29, 2020, 01:04:17 PM
You guys seemed very, very prepared there... what happened?  :ROFL:

Presumably the videos will answer that! :D



JasonPratt

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Reply #326 on: October 29, 2020, 01:35:17 PM
Either of those sacrificial probe actions could win the game for the French. Unless Cyrano has a rule about bot divisions self-destructing, in effect, if they get cut off from their own supply chain, which would make such a sacrificial probe more dicey. But maybe still worth the risk: they aren't going to lose the game from one small division being thrown away early on. (The divisions come in different sizes and morales.)

As an update (where I'm going through the videos), that little bot division didn't do anything I was expecting, but it DID help win the game for the French Team by being summoned and arriving in the nick of time to save one of the main French corps from being routed off the board by the Austrian LowerJawForce at Landshut. That one little move will have huge ramifications later.



Advocator (Scott)

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Reply #327 on: October 29, 2020, 03:32:33 PM
Having watched what videos that have been made public so far, I am really glad that when I was thinking "maybe I should just attack Rattisbonne, what's the worst that could happen" that I came to the conclusion that getting smashed into little, tiny bits was not the worst that could happen, but what would have undoubtedly happened.



James Sterrett

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Reply #328 on: October 29, 2020, 07:43:04 PM
I went through the game thinking our fights around Landshut were a minor sideshow on the flanks - surely the main combat was at Regensburg? - only to discover we were one of the biggest fights in the campaign.  :)




JasonPratt

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Reply #329 on: October 29, 2020, 09:33:20 PM
The hell of it is that, in a very gamey sense, we won: we got both of our victory locations, and held them for a solid while. But we couldn't get back in time to rescue Munich being re-retaken (aside from whatever else happened.)

Strictly speaking, everyone did everything they could do at all points (among the Austrians), based on the information we had, and reasonable inferences from that information. The HindClawForce took Munich and kept French reinforcements at bay. The LowerJawForce had numerous options about how their role would end up, simply by probing across the river, and so happened (based on French positions and decisions) to fill the role of center feint, which could not have gone better under the circumstances and kept the bulk of the French both exhausted and tied up locationally as far away from our two victory points (AND our obvious supply source) as humanly possible on the map.

Of course the FrontClaws and the UpperJawForce easily took Rathbone (as I like to call it  8) ) -- but we didn't know what was there, or rather what was no longer there, nor what might be coming to its rescue. The simplest French move to foil us would be to secure Rattisbonn, then strike off back down the road to Passau, so logically with our puny speed we had to be capable of force-taking the city, through waves of defense if necessary, and/or prevent French assaults down our line of supply.

The only problem is that meant tying up three strong corps, plus our weakest corps (where they could make the strongest impacts) on the main thrust. By the time we knew the LowerJawForce was in serious trouble, we were so close to Regensburg (which for all we knew was the enemy supply source, by the way) that the most logical move was to take it now and hope to force a win that way, while we still had Munich (which we did and with no evidence it would be retaken very soon, which it wasn't).

What else could we have feasibly done? Defeat the present French forces in detail and then the arriving French forces? -- following Tukhachevsky's eventual dictum of DESTROY THE ENEMY ARMIES AND THEN YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU WANT WITH YOUR VICTORY OBJECTIVES! ;)

But we didn't know where they were to start with. And while we could have used our initial scouting information to destroy the holding division at Munich immediately (which we did) then collapse upon the blocking corps at Landshut, there was only one problem, which factored strongly into our eventual operational plan: THE FRENCH RUN TWICE AS FAST AS US! If they decided to run for it, they could keep away, tire us out trying ineffectually to chase after them, and then destroy us with their more rested and speedier reinforcements under the combat bonuses of Nappy.

Creep everyone up our right side to Rathbone for mutual protection on the roads, leaving Munich to its fate late in the game? No way to guarantee our glacial pace could get back there in time (without which we surely couldn't win), AND no way to protect our supply line without leaving players behind doing nothing but boring guard duty (hopefully!)

Considering our capabilities, and limitations, I still believe this was the best plan under the circumstances. And it very nearly worked -- all credit to my Austrian teammates!

One small change however that I might have done, given our initial starting information (once couriers arrived with startpos news), would have been to ask Cyrano if we could call back Barth with his corps, and send him along the north bank of the Isar to help out at Landshut. He might have arrived in time (even with our creepy rate, and even with the relevant bridges across the Danube blocked for a while by our passing) to make a winning difference. But I assumed by the time I heard of a corps starting at Landshut, that we couldn't bring Barth/Hohenzollern back anyway, and that his appearance behind Rathbone could easily be more decisively important (which it could have been, had the French focused there). I didn't think the French would basically take the bait at Landshut so hard as to ignore Rathbone (until near the end of the game).
« Last Edit: December 24, 2020, 03:50:33 PM by JasonPratt »