Author Topic: Interstellar Space Genesis  (Read 5380 times)

Anguille

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Reply #60 on: March 25, 2021, 05:24:02 PM
Good news.

I must say that i've never had any fleet battles in the game so far. Only against monsters or the like. I never manage to have more than a couple of ships.



Martok

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Reply #61 on: March 25, 2021, 06:48:52 PM
Yeah, the game does seem to be lacking in that department.  I think my "biggest" battle thus far has involved 2 destroyers & 3 frigates vs. 4 enemy frigates, which admittedly feels a bit underwhelming. 

I get that war & battles aren't going to be on the same scale or scope as what we see in Distant Worlds or Stellaris, but I feel like ISG could -- and should -- still do better in this regard.  The game has decent ship design and combat systems; it would be nice if we got to take advantage of and/or show that off a bit more. 


« Last Edit: March 25, 2021, 06:51:55 PM by Martok »

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bbmike

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Reply #62 on: March 25, 2021, 06:52:53 PM
Ehhhh. I've never been a fan of huge, hundreds of ship battles. Maybe it's the old school Trek in me, but I like the idea of 12-20 "capital ships" that have names and some support ships with them. It feels more immersive to me.

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Anguille

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Reply #63 on: March 26, 2021, 01:11:29 AM
Ehhhh. I've never been a fan of huge, hundreds of ship battles. Maybe it's the old school Trek in me, but I like the idea of 12-20 "capital ships" that have names and some support ships with them. It feels more immersive to me.
This would be more than enough for me but i never get that far. Ships take just too long to produce. Maybe i do something wrong. And anyway, i never face any threats from other nations in normal difficulty.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 05:12:41 AM by Anguille »



Martok

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Reply #64 on: March 26, 2021, 02:53:27 AM
Ehhhh. I've never been a fan of huge, hundreds of ship battles. Maybe it's the old school Trek in me, but I like the idea of 12-20 "capital ships" that have names and some support ships with them. It feels more immersive to me.

That would be plenty sufficient for me as well, and would "feel" about right for ISG's scale.  However, the game seems to be designed so that even battles of that size aren't possible, or at least worthwhile. 

As Anguille pointed out, ships take longer to build than they (probably) should.  And if you *are* able to build a fleet that large (and in a reasonable amount of time), then odds are very small that anyone else is capable of challenging you anyway. 



As a point of comparison/contrast:  If you look at how fleets & battles scale in Birth of the Federation (which has even smaller map sizes, unless you're playing with mods), they're consistently -- and satisfyingly -- bigger.  Larger battles often involve 50-100 ships, with exceptionally large battles involving more than 200 (although these are rare in my experience).  Granted, those really big battles can be a pain (if only  because of the turn times and frame-rates), but at least they "feel" like proper battles, generally speaking. 

Heck, even most smaller battles in BOTF are equivalent to "large" battles in ISG -- and they're often fun, too.  Can your under-strength squadron of 6-7 destroyers drive off or destroy the enemy's 2-3 cruisers?  Those skirmishes can be wonderfully tense (and a real test of opposing tactics), with the outcome often riding on a knife's edge until the last couple turns. 


I'm not getting any of that with ISG's combat, and it's frustrating.  And a big reason why -- as I've come to realize -- is that in its current iteration, the game just doesn't seem to be designed for even moderately-sized battles.  By the time those would be possible, you've probably won (or lost) already. 



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Anguille

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Reply #65 on: March 26, 2021, 05:13:33 AM
I'm not getting any of that with ISG's combat, and it's frustrating.  And a big reason why -- as I've come to realize -- is that in its current iteration, the game just doesn't seem to be designed for even moderately-sized battles.  By the time those would be possible, you've probably won (or lost) already.
My thoughts exactly.

But i think it's a problem i usually have when there's only one line of production in a game at the level of a city/colony (Civilization, MOO2). This is why i usually prefer to have more than one line of production (MOO1, Armda 2525, Horizon) where i can produce ships at the same time as i improve my colony/planet.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2021, 05:19:26 AM by Anguille »



bbmike

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Reply #66 on: March 26, 2021, 09:19:35 AM
The production in ISG is painful overall to me. It’s like watching grass grow.

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Martok

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Reply #67 on: March 26, 2021, 08:38:08 PM
But i think it's a problem i usually have when there's only one line of production in a game at the level of a city/colony (Civilization, MOO2). This is why i usually prefer to have more than one line of production (MOO1, Armda 2525, Horizon) where i can produce ships at the same time as i improve my colony/planet.

Also a very good point, yes.  I've never been a fan of that mechanic either. 

Granted, it *can* work with certain strategy games -- if it fits the design.  I think with a majority of games, however, it merely ends up being a hindrance. 




The production in ISG is painful overall to me. It’s like watching grass grow.

You're not wrong.  ISG's pacing remains the game's biggest issue for me, and production is probably the single biggest reason for that.  It simply takes too long to build stuff: buildings, ships, etc.  The devs have made some definite improvements in this regard (especially in the 1.1 update), but it's still not enough IMO. 


It's a pity, because I like so much of what they're doing with ISG.  I like the developer's philosophy behind it (and how it's driven the game's design), I like how they engage with -- and respond to -- the community, and I like how they've added some genuinely interesting twists & features to an old (and often tired) formula. 

But good lord, it takes too dang long for things to develop in this game.  :-\ 



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ojsdad

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Reply #68 on: March 26, 2021, 09:02:54 PM
I like the Stellaris approach in that your building fleets.  Yes, they are built as individual ships, and yes you can build individual ships, but to me it makes more sense to design and build a fleet. 

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Martok

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Reply #69 on: March 26, 2021, 10:14:47 PM
I like that system as well.  It's not the only "right" approach, of course, but it's definitely one that can work well. 



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Anguille

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Reply #70 on: March 27, 2021, 02:35:00 AM
I like the Stellaris approach in that your building fleets.  Yes, they are built as individual ships, and yes you can build individual ships, but to me it makes more sense to design and build a fleet.
That was one of the best parts of Master of Orion 3.  You built fleets around Task Forces with individuals ships having different roles...



ojsdad

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Reply #71 on: March 27, 2021, 03:19:20 PM
I like the Stellaris approach in that your building fleets.  Yes, they are built as individual ships, and yes you can build individual ships, but to me it makes more sense to design and build a fleet.
That was one of the best parts of Master of Orion 3.  You built fleets around Task Forces with individuals ships having different roles...

Yes. I had forgotten about that but it was great. Forced players to build ships of different sizes and roles.

 I remember MOO2, all you had to do was build 32k of the smallest ships and you were set. Not very realistic.

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Martok

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Reply #72 on: March 27, 2021, 04:16:39 PM
MOO3 was definitely ahead of its time, with quite a few interesting concepts and mechanics.  A pity it failed in the implementation (not to mention some dodgy AI). 



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Anguille

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Reply #73 on: March 29, 2021, 04:49:25 AM
MOO3 was definitely ahead of its time, with quite a few interesting concepts and mechanics.  A pity it failed in the implementation (not to mention some dodgy AI).
The AI isn't bad once patched with the Bhruic patches. A major problem was that the AI was disbanding troop transports if the travel was longer than one turn.



ojsdad

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Reply #74 on: March 29, 2021, 08:36:34 PM
I see that were was another new MOO released a few years ago. 

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