Armchair Dragoons Forums
Wargaming => The Modern World => Topic started by: BanzaiCat on September 24, 2019, 09:44:54 AM
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Like the title says, what's your favorite Eastern Front strategic game? The game has to be strategic (e.g., covering the whole of the Eastern Front), not tactical, and can be as simple or complex as you like.
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Agricola!
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Agricola!
THE PUG HAS SPOKEN
Forum closed, move along, nothing to see here.
:P
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Russia Besieged
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/12567/russia-besieged
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Decisive Campaign: Barbarossa on the PC.
I don't have any East Front only strat level board games....
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I don't have any East Front only strat level board games....
:Loser:
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If I play strat level I play the whole of Europe not one part of it. :P
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The old 'Barbarossa' game by SPI/TSR was Corps/Army level, so maybe its more of an Operational level, but it was a very good game. Other than that, I've never played a 'true' strategic EF game.
Do we have a list of any?
I thing AH did way way back in the day?
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The old 'Barbarossa' game by SPI/TSR was Corps/Army level, so maybe its more of an Operational level, but it was a very good game. Other than that, I've never played a 'true' strategic EF game.
Really? This monster (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/11047/barbarossa-game-russo-german-war-1941-45)? I have it somewhere but was never able to get into it. I think it was Division-level, though - I could be wrong, but there were a ton of components/units in the box. It was terribly complicated, at least for me. It's also fairly poorly rated on BGG which reinforced my thought that it wasn't the greatest game. But if you liked it, that's pretty awesome that someone does! :)
Edit: You're correct, it is indeed Corps-level. Huh. I would have thought Division-level since there are so many counters in there! ;D
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If I play strat level I play the whole of Europe not one part of it. :P
I also have these:
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-534-unconditional-surrender-2nd-printing.aspx
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-278-the-supreme-commander.aspx
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-519-cataclysm.aspx
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I have Unconditional Surrender, and it does offer small microcosms of WWII in campaign form to slowly but surely build up your knowledge of the game's systems, which is pretty awesome.
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The old 'Barbarossa' game by SPI/TSR was Corps/Army level, so maybe its more of an Operational level, but it was a very good game. Other than that, I've never played a 'true' strategic EF game.
Really? This monster (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/11047/barbarossa-game-russo-german-war-1941-45)? I have it somewhere but was never able to get into it. I think it was Division-level, though - I could be wrong, but there were a ton of components/units in the box. It was terribly complicated, at least for me. It's also fairly poorly rated on BGG which reinforced my thought that it wasn't the greatest game. But if you liked it, that's pretty awesome that someone does! :)
Edit: You're correct, it is indeed Corps-level. Huh. I would have thought Division-level since there are so many counters in there! ;D
Yep, that's the one. The games turns were a bit long because of the quite detailed political system, but the attritional combat system is very good indeed. two nice maps, and the counters not bad, apart from the terrible black-on-grey German counters, which could be quite difficult to read.
And, yes, Corps level for the Germans, and Army level for the Soviets. definitely an under rated game.
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^I think we are specifically looking at WW2 Strategic EF games, are we not?
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^I think we are specifically looking at WW2 Strategic EF games, are we not?
Yes though I won't disparage conversation that includes it. I'd prefer just Eastern Front-focused games if possible. Unconditional Surrender or any other game that simulates Barbarossa or parts of the EF thereof are fine too, though.
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Well then USE, Unconditional Surrender Europe, is my got game for that.
AH's old Rise and Fall of the Third Reich is/was a great game too. Played that until the colour came off the counters.
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I remember playing AH's Third Reich :-)
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That's 'cause yer olde like me.
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Older in fact - yer young whippersnapper!
Now, git off my gaming table!
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;D
Third Reich was a great game because you could get the whole war on a reasonable sized table and get the game done in a reasonable amount of time.
Never tried the John Prado(?) version with the bucket-o-dice combat though....
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Never tried the John Prado(?) version with the bucket-o-dice combat though....
I refuse to purchase or play any game from Avalanche Press.
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Never tried the John Prado(?) version with the bucket-o-dice combat though....
I refuse to purchase or play any game from Avalanche Press.
There's that too... :P
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Never tried the John Prado(?) version with the bucket-o-dice combat though....
I refuse to purchase or play any game from Avalanche Press.
I share your sentiment 100%
Another game that would qualify is 'Russia Besieged' formerly by L2 and now done by BC's favourite publisher, Compass Games .
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Have any if you tried the new Thunder in the East game that was VPG and I guess moving to GMT now?
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I played Third Reich a lot back in the day - the original from AH. It was pretty complex for young me but I persevered to learn the economic system in that bloody game.
Avalanche Press never impressed me much, either.
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Thunder in the East - Its a monster!
I think it does go down to divisional level though, so maybe its on the boarder between operational and strategic.
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Here is another contender from 'ye olde SPI' days.
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/6938/global-war
It was, like World in Flames, an absolute pig to play.
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Here is another contender from 'ye olde SPI' days.
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/6938/global-war
It was, like World in Flames, an absolute pig to play.
LOL, you should try Tomorrow The World (https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/7625/tomorrow-world). That one was a disaster, though one I enjoyed to an extent. It was eminently frustrating because the Japanese outnumbered the Germans, and could easily outmaneuver the Germans through sheer weight of numbers, anywhere (the Germans don't have nearly enough units to cover all their territories, while the Japanese do easily).
Ty Bomba made that game, and then re-did it later with Compass in a title called Triumph Of The Will (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/217679/triumph-will-nazi-germany-vs-imperial-japan-1948), which has a low rating and some rather spiteful reviews/commentary on it over at BGG. I've been tempted to get that latter one on occasion only because of my love/hate with TtW and the fact that TotW looks much simpler and cleaner.
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You’d have to define what you consider strategic to be. Generally is it a whole of government approach to achieve national policy goals. The military is just one part of the strategic level. I think you are really interested in an operational level game focused on the Eastern front because it seems you are interested in the military instrument of national power (in this case Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union) exclusively. The operational level can focus on a whole theater like the Eastern front because it links a series of operations or battles to military end states to advance national goals. It could also be a specific operation like Barbarossa which links several subordinate operations and battles. Anyway...
I like No Retreat Russian Front and Ukraine 43.
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Yes; No Retreat! I had forgotten that one.
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You’d have to define what you consider strategic to be. Generally is it a whole of government approach to achieve national policy goals. The military is just one part of the strategic level. I think you are really interested in an operational level game focused on the Eastern front
Agreed. We have mainly been talking about operational level games on the Eastern Front. The strategic level games that have been mentioned cover the entire ETO.
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Thinking about it, 'No Retreat' is maybe one of the best examples of a 'pure' EF strategic level game, dealing as it does with army/front level units.
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A strategic level game would include military, diplomacy, economic and other forms of national power. Unconditional Surrender does this more or less and so doesn’t triumph and tragedy. Frankly one of the best strategic models is the game every bitches about being not a wargame...twilight struggle. It is a strategic level game. What it doesn’t do, because it’s strategic level, is focus exclusively on military options. A game like A World at War is an example of a WW2 strategic level game.
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Yes; No Retreat! I had forgotten that one.
It’s my fall back game for all things eastern front. 😀
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Frankly one of the best strategic models is the game every bitches about being not a wargame...twilight struggle. It is a strategic level game.
It is definitely a strategic level game and I don't even have a problem calling it a wargame. I just don't like Twilight Struggle :P
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I’m not overly enamored with it either. My biggest issue is there is a clear advantage for an experienced player who knows the deck of cards by stages and how the various events interact.
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I’m not overly enamored with it either. My biggest issue is there is a clear advantage for an experienced player who knows the deck of cards by stages and how the various events interact.
Absolutely correct. I played as a noob against an experienced player and got my ass handed to me because of his knowledge of the card play.
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Didn't BC run a forum game of it over at 'The Other Place' a couple of years ago? I seem to remember playing it.
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Not sure but there is a decent port of the game for PC.
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Didn't BC run a forum game of it over at 'The Other Place' a couple of years ago? I seem to remember playing it.
That might have been 'The Real Game of Life,' where everyone kinda ditched me. That was in the lower levels of the forum, which is quite appropriate considering the game was pretty adult-oriented. :)
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Here is another contender from 'ye olde SPI' days.
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/6938/global-war
It was, like World in Flames, an absolute pig to play.
LOL, you should try Tomorrow The World (https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/7625/tomorrow-world). That one was a disaster, though one I enjoyed to an extent. It was eminently frustrating because the Japanese outnumbered the Germans, and could easily outmaneuver the Germans through sheer weight of numbers, anywhere (the Germans don't have nearly enough units to cover all their territories, while the Japanese do easily).
Ty Bomba made that game, and then re-did it later with Compass in a title called Triumph Of The Will (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/217679/triumph-will-nazi-germany-vs-imperial-japan-1948), which has a low rating and some rather spiteful reviews/commentary on it over at BGG. I've been tempted to get that latter one on occasion only because of my love/hate with TtW and the fact that TotW looks much simpler and cleaner.
I actually have Triumph of the Will. I *even* took the shrink wrap off it.
Haven't actually... you know, played it or anything.
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Does EastFront 2 count?
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I actually have Triumph of the Will. I *even* took the shrink wrap off it.
Haven't actually... you know, played it or anything.
What do you think? The components seemed kind of disappointing from the unboxing videos I've seen.
Does EastFront 2 count?
That's the Columbia Games block-style game, correct? Of course it does!
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I actually have Triumph of the Will. I *even* took the shrink wrap off it.
Haven't actually... you know, played it or anything.
What do you think? The components seemed kind of disappointing from the unboxing videos I've seen.
It does seem a bit sparse.
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I think that was it, Stags- it was far too generic-looking. TTW had some personalization (the King Lion Korps, the Imperial Rocket Corps), and I think TTW has a couple of 'bonus' elite units but otherwise, nothing.
If you ever play it, let me know what you think. At this point unless the price drops (it's about $58 US on Amazon Prime right now), I'm not interested.
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I played TTW a LOT back in the day, and it NEVER ended well for the Germans. The Japanese just had way too many units and could swarm the Germans on any front, which meant they could then concentrate even more force on the Germans in other theaters. It's difficult to take advantage of maneuverability on the German side when the Japanese can basically cover every dot on every border territory, with units to spare.
Triumph of the Will looked like it is MUCH more balanced, but...I dunno. It's just not looking terribly appealing.
I should clarify 'strategic' as meaning a full-on war. The military side of it, not necessarily the political side. Though a good wargame will deftly incorporate political elements into it, as well.
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If we had been talking about operational level games, which I know we're not, then War in the East by SPI was pretty good, although it looks very dated now, Despite the horrible generic unit counters, the strategic production cycle part of the game was very good.
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My own personal taste is attuned more to higher-level conflicts where more is in the balance. You could of course argue battles are turning points (e.g. Stalingrad), so I could include those as well. I dunno, it's kind of a nebulous distinction.