WW2 Stays Hot

[bayonetbrant]

So rather than call it a day after the fall of the Nazis, the Western Allies and Russians decide to duke it out right away.

Plenty of games on the topic at this point, no?

• Patton In Flames
• Stalins WWIII
• Operation Unthinkable
• Battle for Germany alt scenario

Any way this doesn't end badly for the Allies?  I mean, what does "success" look like at that point, anyway?  And on whose side do the Germans fight (and are you sure)?

What about the Romanians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Czechs, etc?  Certainly appreciative of the Russians for 'liberating' them but a lot of them did fight for the Germans against the Russians, too.
(note: I don't think it's a far-fetched assumptions that the Poles - whatever was left of them - were going to fight on the side of the allies against the Russians; ditto the Finns)
Do the French charge on with everyone else?
What about the Italians?
Can the Turks be persuaded to join the fray?  The Chinese?


I mean, talk about playing into the cultural paranoia of the Russian psyche....

[bob48]

The Italians have surrendered. the French are considering of it over a bottle of red and some cheese. The Chinese are flexing their muscles and looking at Japan in its weakened state - would the US stop them? maybe. The Turks just want to decapitate everyone and sit on cushions. The Roumania just want everyone to leave them alone.

[bbmike]

...
Plenty of games on the topic at this point, no?
...

Any good games on the topic?

[bayonetbrant]

The Italians have surrendered. the French are considering of it over a bottle of red and some cheese. The Chinese are flexing their muscles and looking at Japan in its weakened state - would the US stop them? maybe. The Turks just want to decapitate everyone and sit on cushions. The Roumania just want everyone to leave them alone.

were the Chinese part of the surrender signed w/ the Japanese?

[bob48]

Good question and one I have no idea about - I shall have to google it.

[ojsdad]

Brant, are you assuming that this all starts after V-J day?  At the end of '45 or sometime in '46?

How much was the USSR relying on goods from the US and Britain at the end of the war?

[bayonetbrant]

Brant, are you assuming that this all starts after V-J day?  At the end of '45 or sometime in '46?

How much was the USSR relying on goods from the US and Britain at the end of the war?

could've been after VJ day.  Could've been right away.  Could've been a supposed 'truce' that one side or the other decides to break in Europe.


I'm betting that if it's after the a-bombs dropped, the Russians start shitting their pants a little


I suppose it's all about the story you want to tell, no?








as to your 2nd question - no idea 

[Barthheart]

So rather than call it a day after the fall of the Nazis, the Western Allies and Russians decide to duke it out right away.

Plenty of games on the topic at this point, no?

• Patton In Flames
• Stalins WWIII
• Operation Unthinkable
• Battle for Germany alt scenario

Any way this doesn't end badly for the Allies?  I mean, what does "success" look like at that point, anyway?  And on whose side do the Germans fight (and are you sure)?

What about the Romanians, Hungarians, Bulgarians, Czechs, etc?  Certainly appreciative of the Russians for 'liberating' them but a lot of them did fight for the Germans against the Russians, too.
(note: I don't think it's a far-fetched assumptions that the Poles - whatever was left of them - were going to fight on the side of the allies against the Russians; ditto the Finns)
Do the French charge on with everyone else?
What about the Italians?
Can the Turks be persuaded to join the fray?  The Chinese?


I mean, talk about playing into the cultural paranoia of the Russian psyche....

Who starts it will have a large effect on what success looks like.
Russian aggressor - they have half of Europe why no the rest. End game is the Atlantic Coast. For Allies this mean just holding what they've got.
Allies aggressor - freedom for all Europeans(?). End game is Russia back in original borders (which are those?). Russians madly trying to convince their new "liberated" pals that the Allies are the New Germany.

None of this ends well for anyone, and not before some poor slob in the middle gets nuked... err... atomiced…

[bob48]

We have to assume that many German troops will gladly join the Allied cause and what was lest of the German Army will rise like a Pheonix from the ashes?

The might of US industry produces Panthers and Tigers on a scale that the Germans could only dream of :-) There again' no need since the M-26 is available.

[ojsdad]

How does the M-26 hold up against the T-34

[bob48]

Very well, I should imagine, better armour (4" frontal) and a good gun (90mm), so as good as, if not better than the T34-85. It was maybe not as fast (?) and was quite heavy - around 50 tons I think.

hang on while I google;


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M26_Pershing

[ojsdad]

The Italians have surrendered. the French are considering of it over a bottle of red and some cheese. The Chinese are flexing their muscles and looking at Japan in its weakened state - would the US stop them? maybe. The Turks just want to decapitate everyone and sit on cushions. The Roumania just want everyone to leave them alone.

were the Chinese part of the surrender signed w/ the Japanese?

Yes, China was part of the surrender of Japan aboard the USS Missouri.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Instrument_of_Surrender

[bob48]

Very interesting - thanks for finding that.

So, we can assume that the US would likely not take kindly to the Chinese having a bash at Japan. We could, however, speculate on some sort of pact between China and Russia.

[BanzaiCat]

Stalin's World War III from Compass has been on my radar for a while. I almost pulled the trigger on it during their recent sale, but recent events mean no more games for me until it's rectified.

I like the looks of the game and also that it will simulate both a European and Middle East conflict. What I'm not too hot on are the nuke rules, but not enough to make me uninterested in getting it eventually.

[ojsdad]

I'll lob a shot at this.

1 Oct 1945.

I don't see Truman having any desire to start a war with Stalin.  There wasn't anything for the US to gain in doing so. 

Churchill didn't trust either Stalin or Communism.  But he knew without the US, support, he could not challenge Stalin.  He also had the issues with the different colonies clamoring for their independence, and knew that they would not support another war.  In fact, it could lead to open revolts.

On to of that, both the UK and US are democracies and capitalist and their people are ready to put down arms and get back to their civilian lives.

Stalin had a great desire to bring all of Europe under his control.  He also had an eye on Asia.  While he really didn't want to, perhaps he could strike a deal with Mao that would unite the two countries.  Whether he was able to or not, he would support Mao and the Chinese communists in taking control of China. 

Taking Korea, Western Europe and China would not take a great effort.  The closest that Korea had for an army was the communist army under Kim-Il Sung.  The Americans hadn't had time to get any troops into Korea yet.  The Japanese troops still there were a non-entity.  Europe was much the same.  The Germans were defeated, her army disbanded and were more focused on rebuilding their country.  France had an army, but were still trying to recover from four years of German occupation.  Same for Italy. 

His two biggest worries were 1) The US had detonated two atomic weapons against Japan, destroying two cities.  The USSR had a strong air force, but if a single bomber got through, Moscow, or any other Soviet city could be quickly destroyed.  His other issue was that he had little hope of being able to take either Japan of England.  The Soviet navy could not, at this time, challenge either the Royal Navy or the US Navy, little lone their combined force.  But with an army of over 20 million and his economy geared to support the war, the Americans and British wouldn't be able to return to Europe or eastern mainland Asia.  Plus, the British and American people would not have the stomach to fight another war. 

He ordered his armies to attack on Oct 10th.