Armchair Dragoons Forums

News:

  • Origins Game Fair 2024 – featuring the Wargame HQ with the Armchair Dragoons – will be held 19-23 June, 2024 ~~ More Info here
  • SAVE THE DATE!  The Armchair Dragoons Fall Assembly will be held 11-13 October 2024 in Raleigh/Cary, NC

News

SAVE THE DATE!  The Armchair Dragoons Fall Assembly will be held 11-13 October 2024 in Raleigh/Cary, NC

Author Topic: ASL Lovers...why ASL?  (Read 24098 times)

judgedredd

  • Guest
on: September 10, 2020, 05:21:53 PM
What is it about ASL that get's yer juices flowing?

I tried to read some of the rules, and they were text heavy and pretty complicated from what I recall...so why dedicate your time to that engine specifically?



bbmike

  • Warrant Officer
  • Lance Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 7457
    • My Own Worst Enemy
Reply #1 on: September 10, 2020, 05:41:03 PM
Mom! Dad! judgedredd! It's evil! Don't touch it!  >:D

"My life is spent in one long effort to escape from the commonplace of existence."
-Sherlock Holmes

My Own Worst Enemy


bob48

  • Smeghead.
  • Warrant Officer
  • Lead Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 11762
Reply #2 on: September 10, 2020, 05:45:28 PM
 :2funny:

“O Lord God, let me not be disgraced in my old days.”

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'


BanzaiCat

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Lance Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 6573
  • Puns Puns Puns Puns
Reply #3 on: September 10, 2020, 05:57:54 PM
I hear if you turn out the lights in your bathroom and say "ASL" three times in the darkened mirror, trailrunner appears to tell you that if there is an involuntary failure to maintain access, a SR would stay on the map but an FFE will proceed and when in FFE:C be removed.  :2funny:

============================================

Solosaurus Podcast: https://solosaurus.libsyn.com/
(includes Solosaurus Plays)


trailrunner

  • Corporal
  • **
  • Posts: 1067
Reply #4 on: September 10, 2020, 06:06:24 PM
Yes, I agree that the rules are terse, and sometimes needlessly so.  That is somewhat offset by the plethora of play aids, tutorials, and youtube videos.

There are several things I like about ASL.  One is the modularity.  Once you learn the rules, it opens up thousands of scenarios, each telling a different story -- and there are stories within the stories when you actually play.  I also think the rules also a lot of tactical freeplay, which is sort of surprising considering how thick the rulebook is.  The dice can and they can not play a big role.  There are a lot of things that you want to do but won't be able to do because you failed a roll, or your machine gun will break.  The scale of the game is also wonderful - I can feel like I'm down with the squads trying to cross the street into the village.

I won't say ASL is the best.  I think other systems have learned from ASL, and taken the good elements without all the chrome.  The starter kits are an example - they have captured 75 percent of the game with only 50 percent of the rules.  SK1 is a bargain, not that difficult, and people are producing a lot of SK1 only scenarios.

I highly recommend Jay Richardson's tutorials.  Highly recommend.  The pandemic has also pushed me to get VASL running, and now I love it.  I have a small network of friends that I'm helping learn through the starter kits.  Let me know if you want to join us sometime.

I’ve spent half my life’s earning on wargames, women, and drink. The rest I wasted.


BanzaiCat

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Lance Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 6573
  • Puns Puns Puns Puns
Reply #5 on: September 10, 2020, 11:47:41 PM
I poke fun, but I played Squad Leader a lot (solo) back in the 80s. I've never been huge on tactical combat but I think that's changing slowly, what with LnL, CoH, and other stuff I have now.

============================================

Solosaurus Podcast: https://solosaurus.libsyn.com/
(includes Solosaurus Plays)


judgedredd

  • Guest
Reply #6 on: September 11, 2020, 05:38:34 AM
Yes, I agree that the rules are terse, and sometimes needlessly so.  That is somewhat offset by the plethora of play aids, tutorials, and youtube videos.

There are several things I like about ASL.  One is the modularity.  Once you learn the rules, it opens up thousands of scenarios, each telling a different story -- and there are stories within the stories when you actually play.  I also think the rules also a lot of tactical freeplay, which is sort of surprising considering how thick the rulebook is.  The dice can and they can not play a big role.  There are a lot of things that you want to do but won't be able to do because you failed a roll, or your machine gun will break.  The scale of the game is also wonderful - I can feel like I'm down with the squads trying to cross the street into the village.

I won't say ASL is the best.  I think other systems have learned from ASL, and taken the good elements without all the chrome.  The starter kits are an example - they have captured 75 percent of the game with only 50 percent of the rules.  SK1 is a bargain, not that difficult, and people are producing a lot of SK1 only scenarios.

I highly recommend Jay Richardson's tutorials.  Highly recommend.  The pandemic has also pushed me to get VASL running, and now I love it.  I have a small network of friends that I'm helping learn through the starter kits.  Let me know if you want to join us sometime.
Whooooaaa kiddo - I never said anything about getting into it (though I guess you probably (correctly) read between the lines)

I was just tinkering with looking into a starter kit...it popped up when I was browsing around and I wondered why it was so big.

I don't know - I have a few tactical games that I really like - and my mind isn't really into taking in complicated stuff anymore. I'll drop you a line if I do pick it up.

I poke fun, but I played Squad Leader a lot (solo) back in the 80s. I've never been huge on tactical combat but I think that's changing slowly, what with LnL, CoH, and other stuff I have now.
Really? I much prefer tactical games - though I am enjoying some of the larger games I have (Battle Hymn and Holland 44 for example)



Silent Disapproval Robot

  • Lancer
  • *
  • Posts: 934
Reply #7 on: September 11, 2020, 05:58:49 AM
I played a tonne of Squad Leader back in high school.  When ASL first came out, it was more than I could afford but some in my gaming group picked it up.  I liked crunchy rules  (the older I get, the less I'm able to retain so I shy away from the super complex stuff now) and I love tactical games but ASL was just too much for me (and the guys who bought it).  They sold off their copies and we went back to regular Squad Leader.  ASL felt like it would be a lifestyle game and I'm more of a jack-of-all-trades type.  I constantly bounce between game systems and have to re-familiarize myself with the rules whenever I finally get back to a game I haven't played in a while.  I don't know if that'd be feasible with ASL.

Based on your posted impressions and experiences with games like the LNL Tactical series, I'd say give it a miss.  These days, I prefer to stick with LNL, and the occasional foray into Tide of Iron (fun game but setup is a chore).  I'm reading through Band of Brothers now and will hopefully get that on the table next weekend. 



judgedredd

  • Guest
Reply #8 on: September 11, 2020, 06:08:18 AM
So Advanced Squad Leader used to just be Squad Leader? A lighter version presumably?

What made it advanced? Just nuance additions to the rules I guess?



Silent Disapproval Robot

  • Lancer
  • *
  • Posts: 934
Reply #9 on: September 11, 2020, 07:06:41 AM
The original version was called Squad Leader.  The base game had Germany, the US, and the USSR.  There were 3 expansions for it.  Cross of Iron covered the Eastern Front and added a bunch of armour rules.  Crescendo of Doom covered the early war and added the UK as well as several minor nations such as Greece, Belgium, Norway, etc.  GI Anvil of Victory focused on the Western Front and added a bunch of new units for the US and UK.

Advanced Squad Leader was released several years later and was more of a modular system.  You'd buy a giant binder for the basic rules and then boxed sets covering various nations, times, and theatres.  I think the only ones my friends picked up were Beyond Valour (eastern front), and Paratrooper.  We'd given up on the Advanced version by the time Yanks was released.



trailrunner

  • Corporal
  • **
  • Posts: 1067
Reply #10 on: September 11, 2020, 07:54:20 AM
Whooooaaa kiddo - I never said anything about getting into it (though I guess you probably (correctly) read between the lines)

Well, you were reading the rules, weren't you?  Or maybe you were just reading them for the pictures?   :whistle:


So Advanced Squad Leader used to just be Squad Leader? A lighter version presumably?

What made it advanced? Just nuance additions to the rules I guess?

As SDR explains, SL came out in four modules, with each module adding more features.  But there were problems with rules from each module conflicting with each other, so they rebooted it as ASL, and issued a consolidated set of updated rules. 

I’ve spent half my life’s earning on wargames, women, and drink. The rest I wasted.


judgedredd

  • Guest
Reply #11 on: September 11, 2020, 08:48:37 AM
uh oh......




bbmike

  • Warrant Officer
  • Lance Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 7457
    • My Own Worst Enemy
Reply #12 on: September 11, 2020, 08:54:59 AM

"My life is spent in one long effort to escape from the commonplace of existence."
-Sherlock Holmes

My Own Worst Enemy


besilarius

  • Corporal
  • **
  • Posts: 1594
Reply #13 on: September 11, 2020, 09:18:56 AM
Speaking of John Hill's original Squad Leader.
I have a very strong memory of being in a Tors R Us store.  The back wall was stacked with mauve colored boxes of Squad Leader.
Must have been two hundred copies.  And all priced $4.95.
Those were the days.

"These things must be done delicately-- or you hurt the spell."  - The Wicked Witch of the West.
"We've got the torpedo damage temporarily shored up, the fires out and soon will have the ship back on an even keel. But I would suggest, sir, that if you have to take any more torpedoes, you take 'em on the starboard side."   Pops Healy, DCA USS Lexington.


judgedredd

  • Guest
Reply #14 on: September 11, 2020, 09:28:51 AM
It's £24 - what will I lose if I don't like it?