Armchair Dragoons Forums

News:

  • Connections Online 2024 will be held 15-20 April, 2024 ~~ More Info here
  • Buckeye Game Fest will be held May 2-5, 2024, with The War Room opening on 29 April ~~ More Info here

News

Connections Online 2024 will be held 15-20 April, 2024 ~~ More Info here

Author Topic: Stellaris  (Read 97963 times)

Martok

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Lance Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 6771
  • Tilting at windmills
Reply #630 on: May 14, 2023, 02:27:41 PM
Yes, I'm currently giving this mod a go: 

Better Leader Cap for Stellaris 3.8


It doesn't fix/address the root problem, obviously, but it'll do for now. 




In the meantime, my Steam review of Galactic Paragons will remain a thumbs-down unless & until the leader cap issue is resolved. 



"I like big maps and I cannot lie." - Barthheart

"I drastically overpaid for this existence." - bbmike


ojsdad

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 2698
Reply #631 on: May 14, 2023, 07:57:36 PM
I guess I'm not following.  If the limit on the number of leaders is the issue, and a mod can fix it, then why the continued negative review?

Here at ACD, we all pee the same color.


Martok

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Lance Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 6771
  • Tilting at windmills
Reply #632 on: May 28, 2023, 02:40:28 PM
Dev Diary #302 - Leaders and 3.8.3 Balance Changes: 


https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/developer-diary/stellaris-dev-diary-302-leaders-and-3-8-3-balance-changes.1586776/





Some tweaks and changes to Leaders are coming in the next patch, though game director Stephen Muray acknowledges this won't fix many of the underlying issues that emerged during the release of Paragons and the Gemini update.  Sounds like a lot of the patch notes are partial/stopgap measures to address at least some of the Leader issues in the meantime, while he and the team work on more permanent, long-term solutions -- though those clearly won't be implemented until a future major update.  Still, it's good that they're responding to the criticism/feedback like this. 


Also worth noting is that another patch (3.8.4) is also planned before the devs go on their holiday break this summer.  I'm guessing the 3.8.3 patch will release next week (Tuesday, maybe?), with the 3.8.4 patch dropping probably sometime in late June. 



"I like big maps and I cannot lie." - Barthheart

"I drastically overpaid for this existence." - bbmike


Martok

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Lance Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 6771
  • Tilting at windmills
Reply #633 on: May 30, 2023, 02:00:52 PM
Patch 3.8.3 did indeed drop today: 


https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/dev-team-3-8-3-patch-released.1587656/





My two favorite patch notes are right here. 

Quote
Improvement:  It is now possible to rename council positions by clicking on council position name in the council view.

Bugfix:  Fixed notification map ping staying visible for some time after dismissing the notification.


The first one is just fun, while the second one addresses a minor but *extremely* annoying visual bug.  :crazy2:  Thank goodness! 


"I like big maps and I cannot lie." - Barthheart

"I drastically overpaid for this existence." - bbmike


Steelie

  • Corporal
  • **
  • Posts: 1035
Reply #634 on: May 30, 2023, 03:22:34 PM
Extreeeemly annoying! That's good news.

Somewhere, somehow, I woke up in the wrong timeline. I'm pretty sure this isn't even my dimension.


Anguille

  • Jr Lancer
  • ***
  • Posts: 256
Reply #635 on: May 31, 2023, 05:43:05 AM
Was away for a month and now the game updated to the new leader system....it just sucks. So far i hate it.



Martok

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Lance Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 6771
  • Tilting at windmills
Reply #636 on: June 15, 2023, 01:05:48 PM
I was admittedly caught a little off-guard by this, but patch 3.8.4 dropped today: 

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/dev-team-3-8-4-patch-released.1590108/


Nothing spectacular this time around, though still welcome: it's mostly fixing bugs and UI issues, along with some balance work. 





New dev diary today as well: 

Stellaris Dev Diary #304 - 3.8.4 Released, What’s Next?


Sounds like the future 3.9 update will be smaller and less flashy, with a greater focus on polish and refining Leaders & their mechanics introduced in 3.8/Paragons.  The devs are also planning to see what they can do about the AI spamming Habitats everywhere, while still keeping them viable, especially for those with the Void Dweller origin. 



"I like big maps and I cannot lie." - Barthheart

"I drastically overpaid for this existence." - bbmike


Anguille

  • Jr Lancer
  • ***
  • Posts: 256
Reply #637 on: June 30, 2023, 02:53:37 AM
I have now played a full game with the new leader system and must say, while i don't hate it anymore, it's really just meh. For me, it adds nothing and i am mostly annoyed by the repeated information that i have some leaders with no assignement. So i have 3 leaders as the council, a couple of leaders on science ships. The envoys are not on that list, aren't they? I am confused by the new system. I have not more interaction with my leaders than before. I have a lot more interaction with my leaders in Master of Orion CtS or Interestellar.  :nope:
« Last Edit: July 01, 2023, 05:39:44 PM by Anguille »



Martok

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Lance Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 6771
  • Tilting at windmills
Reply #638 on: July 01, 2023, 04:44:49 PM
My main problem with Leaders -- and to be fair, this is really in the main game, not the DLC -- remains the leader cap.  It's simply too restrictive as is, and so I find myself with no choice but to use a mod that expands the leader cap...and mods always break whenever the game gets updated. 

This is not a good, long-term solution to the issue.  I'm really hoping the whole system gets re-addressed by the devs when they return from their summer break,  and that we see some marked improvements in the 3.9 update. 




I have now played a full game with the new leader system and must say, while i don't have it anymore, it's really just meh.

You refunded/uninstalled Galactic Paragons, then?  ??? 



For me, it adds nothing and i am mostly annoyed by the repeated information that i have some leaders with no assignement. So i have 3 leaders as the council, a couple of leaders on science ships.

Huh.  Personally, I find leaders are generally more interesting and more powerful now.  I do wish they felt like they had more *personality*, but I'm guessing that will come in the future internal politics DLC that's been vaguely hinted at.  (Here's hoping!) 

I do get the annoyance about notifications of unassigned leaders, however. 



The envoys are not on that list, aren't they?

Not at present, no.  Stephen Muray does want to make Envoys a "normal" leader type like Governors, Admirals, etc., but he said that's for a future update. 



I am confused by the new system. I have not more interaction with my leaders than before. I have a lot more interaction with my leaders in Master of Orion CtS or Interestellar.  :nope:

Interesting.  I guess we've had different experiences with leaders in 4x games, at least space 4x games. 


Don't get me wrong:  I have yet to come across a space 4x/GS title where I felt that leaders were genuinely implemented well.  Whether it's Stellaris, Interstellar Space: Genesis, Distant Worlds, etc., I rarely find Leaders in space-strategy games to be extremely interesting and/or engaging.  (Though I do feel Galactic Paragons is at least a step in the right direction.) 

However, I also think it's much harder to do leaders well in space settings, as opposed to historical 4x/grand-strategy.  (Civilization, Crusader Kings, and the Total War games have the advantage in this respect.)  So I just appreciate it when space 4x games even have leaders, as I find it still helps with the roleplay/immersion aspect. 



"I like big maps and I cannot lie." - Barthheart

"I drastically overpaid for this existence." - bbmike


Anguille

  • Jr Lancer
  • ***
  • Posts: 256
Reply #639 on: July 01, 2023, 05:41:25 PM
It's supposed to be written "hate" instead of "have" (one letter gives a total different meaning!). I will complete my answer later (watching a movie 🍿)  ;)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2023, 06:20:26 PM by Anguille »



Anguille

  • Jr Lancer
  • ***
  • Posts: 256
Reply #640 on: July 01, 2023, 06:37:54 PM
My main problem with Leaders -- and to be fair, this is really in the main game, not the DLC -- remains the leader cap.  It's simply too restrictive as is, and so I find myself with no choice but to use a mod that expands the leader cap...and mods always break whenever the game gets updated.  This is not a good, long-term solution to the issue.  I'm really hoping the whole system gets re-addressed by the devs when they return from their summer break,  and that we see some marked improvements in the 3.9 update. 
Agree. I don't like the cap. However, while it disturbed me in the first phase of the game, i didn't care anymore from the mid to the end game as i just didn't know what to do with leaders (apart from the 3 in the government and 2-3 scientists).

I have now played a full game with the new leader system and must say, while i don't have it anymore, it's really just meh.

You refunded/uninstalled Galactic Paragons, then?  ??? 
Made a spelling mistake  :doh:. I don't have Galactic Paragons but the regular game (with the new system) so maybe it's the reason i don't see the use of the leaders. I have played it with the game without this dlc. You have it i guess?

For me, it adds nothing and i am mostly annoyed by the repeated information that i have some leaders with no assignement. So i have 3 leaders as the council, a couple of leaders on science ships.

Huh.  Personally, I find leaders are generally more interesting and more powerful now.  I do wish they felt like they had more *personality*, but I'm guessing that will come in the future internal politics DLC that's been vaguely hinted at.  (Here's hoping!) 

I do get the annoyance about notifications of unassigned leaders, however. 

What do you do with the leaders now?

The envoys are not on that list, aren't they?


Not at present, no.  Stephen Muray does want to make Envoys a "normal" leader type like Governors, Admirals, etc., but he said that's for a future update. 

Interesting


I am confused by the new system. I have not more interaction with my leaders than before. I have a lot more interaction with my leaders in Master of Orion CtS or Interestellar.  :nope:

Interesting.  I guess we've had different experiences with leaders in 4x games, at least space 4x games. 

Don't get me wrong:  I have yet to come across a space 4x/GS title where I felt that leaders were genuinely implemented well.  Whether it's Stellaris, Interstellar Space: Genesis, Distant Worlds, etc., I rarely find Leaders in space-strategy games to be extremely interesting and/or engaging.  (Though I do feel Galactic Paragons is at least a step in the right direction.) 

However, I also think it's much harder to do leaders well in space settings, as opposed to historical 4x/grand-strategy.  (Civilization, Crusader Kings, and the Total War games have the advantage in this respect.)  So I just appreciate it when space 4x games even have leaders, as I find it still helps with the roleplay/immersion aspect.
I agree, there are no perfect systems yet in 4x games for leaders and do appreciate if there are any. I meant that i find less interesting now with the change as it was before and even less than in the other games i mentionned. MOO3 was promising a nice leader system before they trashed it alltogether. Trying to think about the best leader system in a 4x game but it's hard. Maybe Knights of Honor 1&2 ? The leader system in Master of Orion 2 and CtS is also very clear with top ship leaders and very specific colony leaders which you can move from one place to another. Stellaris was ok for me with the older system (governors, fleet admirals and generals). I just don't see the use of the new system, at least without the dlc itself, the new system is worse. But i am hesitant to pay for it right now.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2023, 06:44:46 PM by Anguille »



Martok

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Lance Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 6771
  • Tilting at windmills
Reply #641 on: July 01, 2023, 10:04:00 PM
Agree. I don't like the cap. However, while it disturbed me in the first phase of the game, i didn't care anymore from the mid to the end game as i just didn't know what to do with leaders (apart from the 3 in the government and 2-3 scientists).

I found the leader cap (unmodded) to be annoying from beginning to end: 

In the early game, you don't have enough leader cap to have more than a couple Scientists.  Given how the exploration phase is both one of the most crucial -- and most fun -- parts of Stellaris, it's a restriction that many players find baffling as it is frustrating. 

And in the mid-game and late-game, you don't have enough leader cap for Admirals and (especially) Governors.  Governors now apply their traits only the world they directly govern, with the remaining worlds in their sector only benefiting from their skill level now.  So the game encourages you to place Governors on individual worlds again (like in older, prep2.0 versions of the game), whilst simultaneously restricting further than ever before the number of Governors you can actually have.  :face: 

And let's not forget about the poor Generals:  They were already underwhelming before, but at least you could afford to have 1-2, if only for the sake of flavor/roleplay.  Now, though, leader slots are so damn precious, that you dare not hire any Generals ever, unless you're lucky enough to get one of the rare exceptions that doesn't count towards your leader cap (for whatever reason). 


Don't get me wrong, I love most of the actual content in the Paragons DLC (yes, I do own it).  But the "logic" that went into the design for the general leader overhaul (for both the main game plus Paragons) is simply brain-melting; it's almost as if the devs employed 1984-style "double-think" in their approach.  :idiot2: 




What do you do with the leaders now?

Scientists take up my "extra" leader slots in the early game.  I focus on Governors in the mid-game, and then more on Admirals in the late-game.  I only hire Generals if they won't count toward my leader cap (usually Marauder Generals or certain "special event" Generals). 




The envoys are not on that list, aren't they?

Not at present, no.  Stephen Muray does want to make Envoys a "normal" leader type like Governors, Admirals, etc., but he said that's for a future update. 

Interesting

I should clarify/emphasize  that Muray has said he hopes to make this happen, but it's not a done deal at this point. 

Oh the other hand, it's been my experience thus far that if he's willing to state in a Stellaris dev diary that he wants to make "X change" in the game, then it usually ends up happening.  So fingers crossed! 




I just don't see the use of the new system, at least without the dlc itself, the new system is worse. But i am hesitant to pay for it right now.

Personally, I think you hit the nail on the head:  The rework to the leader system is only worthwhile if you also own Galactic Paragons.  And quite frankly, in hindsight, I don't think the devs should be rewarded for that -- not until they fix what they've broken. 



"I like big maps and I cannot lie." - Barthheart

"I drastically overpaid for this existence." - bbmike


Martok

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Lance Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 6771
  • Tilting at windmills
Reply #642 on: July 21, 2023, 03:28:46 AM
Aspec demonstrates a number of hidden/little-known quality-of-life features in Stellaris (they can definitely improve your playing experience!):





I'd stumbled across most of these myself already, though there were a couple that I only learned about fairly recently.



"I like big maps and I cannot lie." - Barthheart

"I drastically overpaid for this existence." - bbmike


Steelie

  • Corporal
  • **
  • Posts: 1035
Reply #643 on: July 21, 2023, 08:42:10 AM
I definitely found a couple I didn't know of, like setting an army to "aggressive" will cause it to attach to a fleet and follow along. Hello Space Marines, lol! Good stuff, Martok.  :bigthumb:

Somewhere, somehow, I woke up in the wrong timeline. I'm pretty sure this isn't even my dimension.


Martok

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Lance Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 6771
  • Tilting at windmills
Reply #644 on: July 22, 2023, 02:13:05 PM
I definitely found a couple I didn't know of, like setting an army to "aggressive" will cause it to attach to a fleet and follow along. Hello Space Marines, lol! Good stuff, Martok.  :bigthumb:

Yep, that's one of the more recent discoveries I made (within the last few months).  :)  Another big one was the use of control groups for fleets -- holy hell, has that proven handy!! 



"I like big maps and I cannot lie." - Barthheart

"I drastically overpaid for this existence." - bbmike