Armchair Dragoons Forums

News:

  • Origins Game Fair 2024 – featuring the Wargame HQ with the Armchair Dragoons – will be held 19-23 June, 2024 ~~ More Info here
  • Buckeye Game Fest will be held May 2-5, 2024, with The War Room opening on 29 April ~~ More Info here

News

Buckeye Game Fest will be held May 2-5, 2024, with The War Room opening on 29 April ~~ More Info here

Author Topic: Pop Star Averts WW3 (no, really)  (Read 3692 times)

bayonetbrant

  • Arrogance Mitigator & Event "Organizer"
  • Administrator
  • Staff Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 15506
  • Going mad, but at least going somewhere
    • Six Degrees of Radio
on: August 12, 2023, 10:35:47 PM
started here
https://twitter.com/garius/status/1689941872024662016



Quote
My favourite IRL Dannatt fact:

In 1999 Major-General Dannatt was CRITICAL to stopping Wes Clark from turning the Kosovo peacekeeping into a hot war with Russia/Serbia.

As he knew when and how he was allowed to reject an order. And his commander, Gen Mike Jackson knew it.

It's June 1999 and a NATO peacekeeping force (KFOR) enters Kosovo under a fragile peace, brokered to end the brutal Balkans wars.

When the first recon elements reach Pristina, though, they find that a small Russian force has also crossed the border and seized the airport.
The Russians (not unfairly) believe they have been cut out of the peacekeeping. But this seizure is an attempt by rogue elements within the Russian government to either provoke an engagement, or secure concessions.

They were FM Ivanov, General Ivashov and FSB head...

...Putin.


How to deal with the Russian incursion caused a rift at command level. The American general Wes Clark (Supreme NATO commander in Europe) wanted to order an immediate assault.

The British KFOR commander Mike Jackson, refused. Backed up by American Admiral Jim Ellis.
General Jackson pointed out to his superior (Clark) that the peace was fragile, KFOR overextended and vulnerable. If they attacked the Russians, the Serbs would side with the Russians and it would be a bloodbath.

Better to surround, close the airspace, and force them out
Jackson insisted the situation be referred back to Washington and London so they could close the airspace.

Frantic diplomacy ensued, which culminated in the Romanians closing their airspace to Russia and daring the Russians to try entering it with a military flight.

Clark wouldn't give up on an attack though. He tried to order Ellis to blockade the Bosphorus (he refused, citing the Montreux Convention) and went behind Jackson's back, contacting the KFOR recon force directly and ordering it to IMMEDIATELY attack the Russians at the airport.
Luckily, the forces outside the airport were comprised of Norwegian commandos and Captain James Blunt (yes that one) commanding a British contingent from Company D Blues & Royals.

They recognised the order was insane, and decided to stonewall it, faking radio issues.

Blunt and the other officers decided Clark's order was against the rules of engagement and agreed that if it was repeated again, they'd all risk courts martial by refusing point blank to attack the airport.

Their delay gave Jackson enough time to find out and countermand it.

The situation calmed overnight and with the airport now surrounded Jackson himself entered Kosovo. A fluent Russian speaker, he quietly met with the Russian commander General Zavarzin. Over a whisky in the rain, they both agreed this whole thing was very silly and to wait it out.
Unfortunately, when Jackson returned to his HQ at Skopje he discovered Clark had AGAIN tried to order an attack in his absence. Andrew Ridgway, Jackson’s Chief of Staff, had refused to issue any orders without Jackson's approval.

So Clark was now inbound for Skopje.
When Clark arrived, he was briefed. The airport was locked down. Airspace closed. The Russians WOULD fight if forced but were happy to be waited out.

Clark listened. Nodded. Then ordered an attack.

“Sir.” Jackson told him, with cold formality. “I will not start WW3 for you.”

Jackson told Clark, bluntly, that without approval from Washington or London he had no authority to order a move against the airport.

To Jackson's horror, Clark then announced that he'd spoken to NATO Secretary General Javier who had given him permission to do what he felt best.
Clark then gave Jackson a DIRECT order to begin operations against the Russians at the airport, starting with deploying American air elements.

He likely expected Jackson to resign, allowing Clark to take direct command.

Instead, Jackson agreed. But suggested Armour instead

Enter Major-General Dannatt, commander of the British contingent (COMBRITFOR)

The British 4th Armoured were the only armoured element in KFOR and the ONLY possible recipient of Clark's order to take the runways, now that Jackson had got him to modify it to an armoured attack.
Dannatt took one look at the order and realised its absurdity. A smart and thorough commander, Dannatt also knew that as COMBRITFOR, under the NATO rules he was allowed to 'red card' the order and refer it back to his national chain of command for confirmation.

This he now did.

That alerted London that Clark was trying to start a war, WITHOUT Jackson having to disobey his superior's order as NATO KFOR Commander.

London frantically contacted Washington, and Washington IMMEDIATELY got on the phone to Clark and told him to cease-and-desist IMMEDIATELY.
Clark now discovered that Jackson had 'accidentally' engineered a situation whereby a British senior officer would get the order, one Jackson knew would not be intimidated and who was smart enough to realise he could invoke the NATO national forces veto.

Clark was beaten.
Unable to resupply (and having failed to provoke an attack), the Russians were forced to withdraw from Pristina airport shortly after.

Two months later, in August 1999, the US government announced Wes Clark would be taking early retirement from the position of NATO SACEUR.
In his autobiography, General Mike Jackson insists that he did not know that Major-General Dannatt would invoke the veto and request confirmation from London that he should agree to assault the airport.

To this day, General Wes Clark refuses to believe him.

Anyway. Always seen this whole incident as a telling lesson in how command should - and SHOULDN'T - work at all levels.

Jackson was NATO KFOR commander, so Clark's subordinate. He had to either accept the order or refuse and resign straight away.

He could THEN have got straight on the phone to London, but by that point Clark would have ordered the helicopters in already.

By accepting the order, but persuading Clark to alter it so it HAD to go to 4th Armoured, he created a situation where it had to get through BRITCOMMFOR. Who DID have a national veto.

And he knew (I think) Dannatt well enough to know he would call shenanigans and use it.
Whereas he likely knew American Army leadership culture, the general attitude of their attack copter arm, and the fact that Clark would be the one giving the order, would have meant the US contingent WOULDN'T have vetoed it, if it had gone to them.

Hence why the Blues and Royals (then Jackson and others) saw it as a clear violation of the SPIRIT of the mandate, even if Clark could have later stuck his hand up and said he hadn't acted against it.
 


much more here

https://medium.com/lapsed-historian/pristina-an-airport-too-far-42e010e19f12

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=++

Random acts of genius and other inspirations of applied violence.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Six Degrees of Radio for songs you should know by artists you should love


Putraack

  • Jr. Trooper
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Reply #1 on: August 14, 2023, 10:59:48 PM
I remember some of this, mostly Gen. Jackson saying something like,"Well, those Russians are there, but so what?" I think I remember being angry for a bit, but then calmed down and agreed with him. It didn't seem like it was worth starting to shoot.

A good friend of mine was in Clark's command, and was rather loyal to Clark, but I never asked him about this event.

But why is he a pop star? I missed that connection.



bayonetbrant

  • Arrogance Mitigator & Event "Organizer"
  • Administrator
  • Staff Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 15506
  • Going mad, but at least going somewhere
    • Six Degrees of Radio
Reply #2 on: August 15, 2023, 07:44:35 AM
But why is he a pop star? I missed that connection.

it was in purple for a reason  ;)

Quote
Luckily, the forces outside the airport were comprised of Norwegian commandos and Captain James Blunt (yes that one) commanding a British contingent from Company D Blues & Royals.


=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=++

Random acts of genius and other inspirations of applied violence.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Six Degrees of Radio for songs you should know by artists you should love


Barthheart

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 4632
  • Retired curmudgeon
Reply #3 on: August 15, 2023, 01:39:29 PM
Cool story but never heard of Blunt.  ???

PETS - People for the Ethical Treatment of Square corners


bayonetbrant

  • Arrogance Mitigator & Event "Organizer"
  • Administrator
  • Staff Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 15506
  • Going mad, but at least going somewhere
    • Six Degrees of Radio
Reply #4 on: August 15, 2023, 04:03:47 PM
Cool story but never heard of Blunt.  ???

he's a little too "new" for gentlemen of your vintage  :cowboy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Blunt_discography

 :hug:

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=++

Random acts of genius and other inspirations of applied violence.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Six Degrees of Radio for songs you should know by artists you should love


Undercovergeek

  • Sergeant
  • ***
  • Posts: 2075
Reply #5 on: August 15, 2023, 06:53:12 PM
That’s really surprised me - I’m not saying the guys Elvis but I thought he’d been around long enough that most people would know him



Barthheart

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 4632
  • Retired curmudgeon
Reply #6 on: August 15, 2023, 07:17:28 PM
Cool story but never heard of Blunt.  ???

he's a little too "new" for gentlemen of your vintage  :cowboy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Blunt_discography

 :hug:

Nope never heard of him.

PETS - People for the Ethical Treatment of Square corners


Putraack

  • Jr. Trooper
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Reply #7 on: August 15, 2023, 08:10:48 PM
Ah, I spaced on the name. Also, I would have thought a captain in the 90s wouldn't have been young enough to take up a pop career?

Heard of that song... sorta. It's one that Weird Al parodied as "You're Pitiful", but I'm not sure if I'd ever heard the original.



Sir Slash

  • Lance Sergeant
  • ****
  • Posts: 5427
  • Head of the Honorable Order of Knights Hotwings
Reply #8 on: August 16, 2023, 12:05:25 AM
I'm so old I haven't even heard of Wesley Clark. Was he the one who invented the candy bar?  ;D

Any Day is a Good Day That Doesn't Involve Too Much Work or Too Little Gaming


Sir Slash

  • Lance Sergeant
  • ****
  • Posts: 5427
  • Head of the Honorable Order of Knights Hotwings
Reply #9 on: August 16, 2023, 11:22:44 AM
I actually remember hearing bits & pieces of that story when it happened. I'm glad cooler heads prevailed.   :whew:

Any Day is a Good Day That Doesn't Involve Too Much Work or Too Little Gaming