Armchair Dragoons Forums

Wargaming => Intel Dump => Topic started by: BanzaiCat on September 20, 2019, 01:38:32 AM

Title: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 20, 2019, 01:38:32 AM
First it's Amerika Bomber: Evil Queen of the Skies (https://www.compassgames.com/amerika-bomber-evil-queen-of-the-skies.html) (coming out in November of this year)...and now Devil Boats: PT Boats in the Solomons (https://www.compassgames.com/devil-boats-pt-boats-in-the-solomons.html), coming out in Q2 of 2020.

I already pre-ordered Amerika Bomber, and am sorely tempted by PT Boats. I loved reading PT-109 back in school.

I'm also tempted by Ostkrieg: WW II Eastern Front (https://www.compassgames.com/preorders/ostkrieg-germany-versus-russia-1941-45.html) as it is well suited to solo play.

Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bbmike on September 20, 2019, 08:38:54 AM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/XiPedwA5B1kBi/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: mirth on September 20, 2019, 09:23:14 AM
I have a list of titles to pick up at Compass Con. None of this solo crap though.  :D
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 20, 2019, 10:03:11 AM
None of this solo crap though.  :D

You and your weird "play boardgames with other people" thing.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bbmike on September 20, 2019, 10:55:58 AM
Yeah, him and his fancy "friends".
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: mirth on September 20, 2019, 11:06:02 AM
fancy is not the word to describe my friends
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bob48 on September 20, 2019, 11:47:26 AM
fancy is not the word to describe my friends

Yeah, I mean to say, just look at us................

Oh wait.......
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 21, 2019, 11:41:45 AM
Welp I pre-ordered Devil Boats. Compass Games actually laughed at my post on FB where I said something like "I *just* got Amerika Bomber, and now this." The dev, whom wasn't on Facebook, signed up to reply to that thread, LOL. (Well he did it to answer questions about the game.)

I take comfort in the fact that I cancelled most of my P500 orders over at GMT, except for three. I think I'm good for the moment. Stalingrad '42 is at the printers so we'll see when that one gets shipped.

In any case, Devil Boats just seemed like a nice unique title and Compass really handles solo games well.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Staggerwing on September 21, 2019, 02:46:52 PM
I'm mulling over Devil Boats but will probably wait a bit.

I also see there is a daylight version of Nightfighter Ace due out:

https://www.compassgames.com/preorders/interceptor-ace-daylight-air-defense-over-germany-1943-44.html

Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 21, 2019, 05:24:14 PM
Indeed there is ...Interceptor Ace. I helped them proof the manual, and they went and put my name in the credits. I'm going to skip that one for now, though. Between Nightfighter Ace, America Bomber, and Devil Boats, plus whatever else I grab (lol), I'm good for now.

Though I believe Gregory is doing a Gotha Ace, or Gotha Raider, or something like that.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Staggerwing on September 21, 2019, 05:38:16 PM

I helped them proof the manual, and they went and put my name in the credits

Cool!

Though I believe Gregory is doing a Gotha Ace, or Gotha Raider, or something like that

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/hh.gif)
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: mirth on September 21, 2019, 06:00:29 PM
I'm good for now.

For this week.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 21, 2019, 10:29:08 PM
Point

 Peloponnesian War lookin' awful purty
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: mirth on September 30, 2019, 06:16:09 PM
Whacking Japs is a totally different proposition.   8)

Let's cool it with the "Japs" bullshit. It isn't 1945 anymore.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Barthheart on September 30, 2019, 06:52:33 PM
Whacking Japs is a totally different proposition.   8)

Let's cool it with the "Japs" bullshit. It isn't 1945 anymore.

No.  Nazis and Japs have not passed the 100 year expiration date.

Nazis are a political group... “ Japs” is a racial slur.  >:(
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: mirth on September 30, 2019, 06:59:09 PM
Whacking Japs is a totally different proposition.   8)

Let's cool it with the "Japs" bullshit. It isn't 1945 anymore.

No.  Nazis and Japs have not passed the 100 year expiration date.

I'm not looking for a discussion on the matter. Racial slurs aren't welcome on this forum.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Staggerwing on September 30, 2019, 07:51:07 PM
So you're saying that a lot of Germs got their asses kicked at El Alamein?
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: mirth on September 30, 2019, 08:01:00 PM
I am referring to "Japs" in the historical context of WW2.  Japs is the shortened version of "Japanese".  Sort of like calling Americans "Yanks" during the same context or UK "Brits."

I am not interested in PC crap infesting history.  I'm not going to stop referring to Commies of the USSR as commies, or Japs of the period as Japs, or Brits of the period as "Brits."

If this is not acceptable - I will leave.  It is not negotiable.

PS - if this is unacceptable, Brant no longer has permission to run the Red Star review.

If people interested in history can no longer use shortened versions of the name of the country in the historical context - then they have collectively lost their minds.

As I said, I'm not interested in a discussion on the topic. Historically accurate or not, the term is a racial slur and its use is unwelcome on the forums. You can choose to accept that or not.


As far as your articles on the front of the website, that is between you and Brant. I am not involved in editorial decisions regarding content on the front-end website.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bayonetbrant on October 01, 2019, 06:46:06 AM
Historically accurate or not, the term is a racial slur and its use is unwelcome on the forums. You can choose to accept that or not.

 C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-)

Guys, we're not going to condone racial slurs on the site, regardless of recency, as they are openly offensive.  We're also not interested in trying to slice fine distinction between which racial slurs are OK and why, because it's just not a productive conversation

Airboy, if this is going to alter your participation with the Armchair Dragoons, then let's please move this conversation to email/PM and continue there.

Thank you everyone for maintaining an appropriate level of decorum during this discussion.

 C:-) C:-) C:-) C:-)
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on October 01, 2019, 08:53:39 AM
Hey, here's a thought - Compass Games! :)

Interceptor Ace is scheduled to release in two weeks. I might be excited but I'm good with Nightfighter Ace for the moment, not to mention I have Skies Above the Reich that I've yet to play (Big Surprise).

Amerika Bomber now says December 2019. Oh well - maybe in time for Christmas.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: mirth on October 01, 2019, 09:30:40 AM
I'm pretty excited for Compass Con even though the plan is to play the full campaign of Fields of Despair that weekend :P
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on October 01, 2019, 09:53:42 AM
I'm pretty excited for Compass Con even though the plan is to play the full campaign of Fields of Despair that weekend :P

Sweet. Wish I could go.  :bigthumb:
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bayonetbrant on October 01, 2019, 09:58:52 AM
I'm pretty excited for Compass Con even though the plan is to play the full campaign of Fields of Despair that weekend :P

Sweet. Wish I could go.  :bigthumb:


I mean, if only you were closer to one of the premier wargaming conventions in the country  ::)
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on October 01, 2019, 10:06:34 AM
Last year was not possible. This year might be, if I can get in with a media pass (I'd write the sh*t outta that place). :)

Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: mirth on October 01, 2019, 12:16:05 PM
I'm pretty excited for Compass Con even though the plan is to play the full campaign of Fields of Despair that weekend :P

Sweet. Wish I could go.  :bigthumb:

It's cool they way they run it. You pretty much tell them what game or games you want to play and they try to match you up with other attendees who are interested. You aren't limited to playing only Compass published games. Basically it's open gaming space for the weekend with the chance to buy some discounted games from Compass. They also had a space for attendees to sell their used games (or in my case to buy other people's used games).
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on October 01, 2019, 12:28:39 PM
How big a con is it/how many folks show up?
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: mirth on October 01, 2019, 12:45:20 PM
Last year was the first year so it was pretty small. Figure about 100 attendees total. Looks like they have 75 or so pre-regs for this year with a month to go.


It's a nice little con and it's less than 3 hours from me so it's a no-brainer. The same 4-5 of us who went last year are going back.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 29, 2020, 05:58:42 PM
And just received notification that my copy of Amerika Bomber will be shipping soon!

I don't need to buy more games. I keep forgetting about these pre-orders, LOL.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Staggerwing on January 29, 2020, 06:32:13 PM
And just received notification that my copy of Amerika Bomber will be shipping soon!

I have not gotten any notification yet  :(
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Sir Slash on January 29, 2020, 11:09:12 PM
Do I smell a new AAR coming?  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: beetcafe on January 30, 2020, 04:39:29 AM
And just received notification that my copy of Amerika Bomber will be shipping soon!


I got my notification yesterday.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: judgedredd on January 30, 2020, 06:58:29 AM
lol  :D

Thanks BH.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Barthheart on January 30, 2020, 09:03:10 AM
pssst! wrong thread.... ;)
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2020, 12:42:38 PM
Do I smell a new AAR coming?  :biggrin:

Probably not. At least, not in the immediate future. I have other review/writing priorities at the moment, which are unfortunately taking a back seat as my workplace is acquiring another company of 1500-some employees, so the last few weeks have been

Them: hey we need you to do this project
Me: OK no problem; a project with this amount of complexity and documentation should take about a month or so
Them: you have three days
Me: ...uhh...OK


And multiply that by about a dozen so far.

In any case, more info than you probably care to hear, LOL. But yeah I'd love to do an AAR on that or any other title, so once these commitments settle down I'll be able to get back to it finally.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Sir Slash on January 30, 2020, 03:32:19 PM
Work-Smerk. If it weren't for the pay, I'd never do it.  :nope:
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2020, 03:48:46 PM
Work-Smerk. If it weren't for the pay, I'd never do it.  :nope:

Can't argue with that logic.   :-\
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Staggerwing on February 04, 2020, 07:53:59 PM
Lookie lookie:

Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bob48 on February 05, 2020, 06:14:31 AM
ooh!
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 05, 2020, 07:08:54 AM
Nice! :)

I didn't check the mail yesterday - too beat. Maybe mine is waiting for me...though I never got a shipping notification from Compass. Did you get such a notice, Stags, or did it just show up?
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Staggerwing on February 05, 2020, 07:33:18 AM
I don't think I did, just a notice that my card was charged.

Actually, it looks like I inadvertently ordered 2 copies, at different times. One was back when it was first put up for preorder (paid then) and the second in November when I ordered Interceptor Ace, to be paid when it shipped (hence the recent notice). I'm guessing the copy I just got was from the first order. Maybe they are filling orders in batches, first in, first out?

Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 05, 2020, 08:27:05 AM
Probably so. Not like I'm in a hurry for a new game right now.  ;D
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 06, 2020, 08:18:12 AM
No arrival yet...oh well. Hopefully soon. I get paranoid with shipping especially in my neighborhood as so many of my neighbors have issues with things being delivered at the wrong address.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: ojsdad on February 06, 2020, 01:17:15 PM
I haven't gotten anything for my 1866 game that I ordered last week. Except that I ordered it. I hope they don't wait until the pre order I placed waits to ship all three at once.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: ojsdad on February 06, 2020, 01:43:27 PM
Nm, I think it just came.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Barthheart on February 06, 2020, 02:44:22 PM
That's what she said!
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 06, 2020, 02:48:46 PM
(https://media.tenor.com/images/78999565cca3ac8a211d121c5175cfe4/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 08, 2020, 06:23:32 PM
My copy arrived today. I'm very surprised at how light it is - 228 counters, but 24 of those are for other games (Zeppelin Raider and Interceptor Ace...uhhm...both of which I have, LOL). The rules is only 15 pages and some of that is design notes/history.

An unboxing for the "front page" will be coming soon!  :D
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bob48 on February 09, 2020, 05:45:05 AM
Are they not amended counters for those games?
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 09, 2020, 03:07:12 PM
Are they not amended counters for those games?

Indeed they are, though I'd not noticed anything amiss with my copy of Interceptor Ace.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bob48 on February 09, 2020, 03:26:23 PM
There ya go then  :)
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: judgedredd on February 10, 2020, 10:58:14 AM
BC - do you have a favourite between Nightfighter Ace and Interceptor Ace? I'm more pulled towards Nightfighter Ace myself.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 10, 2020, 12:15:07 PM
BC - do you have a favourite between Nightfighter Ace and Interceptor Ace? I'm more pulled towards Nightfighter Ace myself.

Good question.

I've not played Interceptor Ace though I've poured over the content and rules (I helped them proof the rules and they put my name in the credits - LOL), so I'm fairly familiar with Interceptor Ace.

IA is pretty much the same as NA, though there is a major difference - IA has more rules for dog-fighting. Since IA deals with daylight bombing, you will be dealing with daylight interceptors escorting bombers (not always, but your odds with encountering them will grow greatly as the war progresses, as the Allies add fighters with greater ranges). NA deals with dog-fighting Mosquitoes, but I've yet to get so far in the game that they make an appearance (they CAN appear early in the game, but I've never rolled to encounter one).

It also depends on your own tastes. If you like the idea of flying night fighters against Bomber Command's raids, NA is for you. If you enjoy the thought of flying against American bombers during daylight raids, that's for you. Really, two sides of the same coin, but since IA came after NA, IA incorporates some more polished rules...though that's nothing I'm meaning to slight when it comes to NA.

So, NA is more about fighting bombers, while IA is more about dog-fighting AND bomber attacks.

Another one I have that I've not gotten to is Skies Above the Reich, a solitaire game where you command a squadron of German interceptors (rather than one, as in IA and NA). SATR might be an option though it's expensive, component-heavy, and not focusing on just one fighter, which has a good amount of appeal to me.

I know I've not given you a definitive answer, and that's on purpose - it really depends on your preferences, and I tried to detail some of them here. I had bought NA because I'd had zero idea of night fighting efforts in World War 2, and it opened up avenues of further exploration (buying books and learning a great deal more on the subject). Whereas, there's a right plethora of books on daylight bombing, there aren't as many on night fighting.

Hope that helps, but if you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: judgedredd on February 10, 2020, 01:22:18 PM
Nah - cracking reply - thanks. :bigthumb:
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 10, 2020, 01:27:03 PM
I forgot to mention that dog-fighting Mosquitoes in NA is pretty abstract, about as much so as attacking bombers. IA adds more detail though it's still easy to play through.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bob48 on February 10, 2020, 01:40:10 PM
Without wishing to sidetrack you from continuing with NA, I will admit that IA intrigues me, especially since its based on the same system. I can imagine that its a lot more sanguine in combat that NA, and harder to get your character to a high level?
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 10, 2020, 01:53:42 PM
I can imagine that its a lot more sanguine in combat that NA, and harder to get your character to a high level?

You're not wrong. Combat is rough in IA, especially against the B-17, just as you might imagine. In daylight you can't sneak up on your prey like you can in NA (though you can be spotted in NA, just not automatically like in IA).

In NA, though, you're dealing with a crew, so you get attached to all of them. While you are the "pilot" the others build their skills too and losing them or having them injured and needing to replace them is hard. In IA you can fly the Bf-110 if I remember right so you'd have a crew there, though it's mostly truly solo (e.g. Bf-109, Fw-190, etc.). I'd have to look through it again.

And then there's BGG. In both cases I'm certain you can find fan-made campaigns that allow you to continue fighting beyond the scope of the game. Personally I'd love to see a Go-229 and I have no doubt that would be in there somewhere, or that someone might create one eventually.

Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bob48 on February 10, 2020, 01:59:51 PM
I'd be really interested if IA goes up to include stuff like the Me-210 / 410 though.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Barthheart on February 10, 2020, 02:01:31 PM
Or the ME-262!  :D
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bob48 on February 10, 2020, 02:09:49 PM
We need a ground-attack version of the game so that we can have Hs 129's
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 10, 2020, 02:26:00 PM
All of the above are excellent points.

We need a ground-attack version of the game so that we can have Hs 129's

I'd posit that Wing Leader fits that niche, no?

I own Wing Leader Supremacy and...yep, you guessed it.  :-[
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bob48 on February 10, 2020, 02:29:18 PM
Oh. I'd never really looked at those games. I had no idea that they included ground support missions. The Hs 129 is one of those aircraft that always captured my imagination - a sort of WW2 'Warthog'.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Barthheart on February 10, 2020, 02:47:59 PM
All of the above are excellent points.

We need a ground-attack version of the game so that we can have Hs 129's

I'd posit that Wing Leader fits that niche, no?

I own Wing Leader Supremacy and...yep, you guessed it.  :-[

The Wing Leader series does include ground attack, and sea attack missions, but at the flight, squadron level. Not individual planes.
Lining up on a carrier with torpedo bombers, though is a lot of fun...
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 10, 2020, 02:49:21 PM
The 2D aspect of that game turned me off for a long time. Then finally I pulled the trigger on it. I'd really hate to go back into Amazon to see when I purchased it  :D

Those AARs you guys did in the GH forums encouraged me, though. I really liked what I was seeing.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Barthheart on February 10, 2020, 02:58:37 PM
It very different, but it's also very fun and easy to play and very easy to solo.
No dedicated solo rules but most formation have set actions they have to follow until the fur starts flying.
Once you get playing you don't really miss the other dimension.
The scenarios are setup to teach the game little by little as well, make the game easier to get into.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 10, 2020, 02:59:57 PM
The scenarios are setup to teach the game little by little as well, make the game easier to get into.

I can appreciate that approach. GMT's The Doolittle Raid does much the same, and that's a huge game to undertake if playing it in full.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Barthheart on February 10, 2020, 03:01:17 PM
Wing Leader is great to look at as well. All the planes have different paint schemes!
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: mirth on February 10, 2020, 03:02:42 PM
Wing Leader is great to look at as well.

Especially once the counters have been clipped.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 10, 2020, 03:08:01 PM
 :ROFL:

I might need a new one. I clipped my Amerika Bomber counters and they don't look great. I've had it for over three years now though and figured it would wear out some day.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bob48 on February 10, 2020, 03:28:00 PM
Given the number of game-counters you must have acquired recently, you probably exceeded the cutters design capabilities................ :o
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 10, 2020, 03:33:13 PM
It's possible, though I don't punch and round counters unless I really intend to play. Otherwise I leave the game be until it comes time...and some have had a jolly good wait thus far, lol.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bob48 on February 10, 2020, 03:35:04 PM
Din't JD's cutter go pear-shaped recently as well?
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 10, 2020, 04:10:55 PM
Yeah but I think his issue was a spring or somesuch and he was able to fix it.

Not much I can do if the die cutter itself is worn down other than order another one. Which I can't do at the moment. I'm sure Barth is quite happy about that. :)
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bob48 on February 10, 2020, 04:15:13 PM
I'm honestly astonished that a cutter that only cuts cardboard should wear out so quickly. Seems a bit bit iffy to me. Do you think its worth contacting the manufacturer?
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 10, 2020, 04:39:40 PM
It might be worth a try, but like I said, it's probably 3-4 years old at this point.

Not all the counters looked bad, some were just more...squared off on the corners instead of rounded. Very odd.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Staggerwing on February 10, 2020, 05:22:55 PM
I'd be really interested if IA goes up to include stuff like the Me-210 / 410 though.

There's four player fighters: Bf-109, Fw-190, Me-110, and Me-410
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: mirth on February 10, 2020, 05:30:16 PM

Not all the counters looked bad, some were just more...squared off on the corners instead of rounded. Very odd.

That happens to me sometimes if I don't seat the counter fully in the notch of the cutter.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bob48 on February 10, 2020, 05:36:47 PM
Thanks Stagger  :bigthumb:
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: Staggerwing on February 10, 2020, 05:38:06 PM
At your soivice  :)
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 10, 2020, 05:45:42 PM

Not all the counters looked bad, some were just more...squared off on the corners instead of rounded. Very odd.

That happens to me sometimes if I don't seat the counter fully in the notch of the cutter.

 :bigthumb:

I thought I was being careful, seating it properly. I might not have.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: judgedredd on February 11, 2020, 01:55:24 AM
Din't JD's cutter go pear-shaped recently as well?

Mine was one of the plastic levers snapped. I did manage to fix it thanks to someone linking to a video of a guy with the same problems.

I wouldn't bother contacting the company. I did by email and had no response.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bob48 on February 11, 2020, 06:17:27 AM
I suspect that in BC's case the problem is operator related..................... ;)
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 11, 2020, 07:19:39 AM
As is everything in my life.
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: bob48 on February 11, 2020, 07:34:20 AM
Nah! Surely not,  someone who can do such a splendid AAR of NA can't be all bad.  ;D
Title: Re: Compass Games is killing me
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 11, 2020, 07:37:24 AM
Better at some things than others!  :D