Armchair Dragoons Forums
Wargaming => Sci-fi & Fantasy Warfare => Topic started by: Bison on April 12, 2021, 10:28:33 AM
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OK. I need someone to breakdown Barney style what is going on with the Warhammer series. Two games are out and another one is coming sometime this year.
The games link maps and DLC? This is my understanding but it's frankly quite confusing. If I buy Warhammer, I get the 4 factions in Warhammer II. But if I don't buy Warhammer, I have to buy DLC to have the original factions? Or are they not available?
The Warhammer game world map is only available by owning the first game in the series? I don't see it as an option or DLC for Warhammer II.
What are the mechanical differences?
Seriously leave it to a Games Workshop licensed game to be designed in such a confusing, messy manner.
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I'm completely lost with it, so I can be of no help at all,
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The one thing I can help you with is that players need to own both the first and second title to play the largest TW campaign ever created, the Mortal Empires campaign.
It will bust you and your rig right the hell up.
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You can only play the mega campaign by owning the first game - you can still play the smaller campaign without it - it doesn’t come as dlc it’s merely unlocked by owning both editions
Total War: Warhammer 1 [Base Game]:
Campaign: Old World "Grand Campaign"
Faction: The Empire
Faction: Dwarfs
Faction: Vampire Counts
Faction: Greenskins
Warriors of Chaos [Pre-order bonus / DLC] [Carries over for free to TW:WH2 - Mortal Empires]
Faction: Warriors of Chaos
Blood for the Blood God [DLC] [Carries over for free to TW:WH2]
New combat and kill/death animations
Blood and Gore
Call of the Beastmen [DLC] [Carries over for free to TW:WH2 - Mortal Empires]
Minicampaign: "Call of the Beastmen"
Faction: Beastmen
AI Brayherds added to campaign.
The Grim and the Grave [DLC] [Carries over for free to TW:WH2 - Mortal Empires]
Legendary Lord: Heinrich Kemmler
Legendary Lord: Volkmar the Grim
New units
Unique units: Regiments of Renown
The King and the Warlord [DLC] [Carries over for free to TW:WH2 - Mortal Empires]
Faction: Clan Angrund
Faction: Crooked Moon Tribe
Legendary Lord: Belegar Ironhammer
Legendary Lord: Skarsnik
Unique units: Regiments of Renown
Realm of the Woodelves [DLC] [Carries over for free to TW:WH2 - Mortal Empires]
Minicampaign: "Realm of the Woodelves"
Faction: Woodelves.
Bretonnia[Free-DLC] [Carries over for free to TW:WH2 - Mortal Empires]
Bretonnia faction upgraded and roster fleshed out.
Faction: Bretonnia made playable.
Norsca [Pre-order bonus / DLC] [Carries over for free to TW:WH2 - Mortal Empires]
Norscan factions upgraded and roster fleshed out.
Faction: Norsca made playable.
>>>>>>>>>>>
Total War: Warhammer 2 [Base Game]:
Campaign: New World "Vortex Campaign"
Faction: High Elves
Faction: Dark Elves
Faction: Lizardmen
Faction: Skaven
Blood for the Blood God II [DLC] [Free if TW:WH1 is owned]
New combat and kill/death animations
Blood and Gore
Norsca [Pre-order bonus / DLC] [Free for Mortal Empires Campaign if TW:WH1 is owned]
Norscan factions upgraded and roster fleshed out.
Faction: Norsca made playable.
Campaign: Mortal Empires [DLC] [Available for free if both TW:WH1 and TW:WH2 are owned]
Campaign map: Old+New world combined.
Factions: All owned factions across both TW:WH1 and TW:WH2 available for play.
Custom/Quick Battles (MP/SP) [Feature]
Factions: All owned factions across both TW:WH1 and TW:WH2 available for play.
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Thanks UCG. Is there any notable difference in gameplay mechanics?
Faction wise I’m most interested in Lizardmen and Skaven although I do like me some Greenskins and Undead...
I am going to play a RTW2 campaign while I contemplate and hope for a sale.
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It will bust you and your rig right the hell up.
Kinky. You didn’t like it?
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You’ve got to have 1 for orcs and vampires and tomb kings is a dlc
Gameplay wise apart from minor improvements you’re looking at the same game between 1 and 2
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Well it looks like ucg has already covered pretty much everything. :applause:
The only thing I can think to add (and that's mostly just for clarification's sake) is this: While you need to own both WH1 and WH2 to have access to the massive Mortal Empires campaign, Warhammer 2 is the only game that needs to actually be installed to be able to play the ME campaign. There's no real need to have Warhammer 1 installed.
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^I forgot about that.
Bison I am a novice WH fan so the Mortal Empires campaign was really overwhelming. I’ll try it again eventually though.
And the turn times were really long as my rig chugged through each move of the 100s of factions. Not sure how optimized is has become by now or if turn times have been optimized by now.
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Also, as far as factions, I enjoyed playing the Tomb Kings and Norsca the most, in the smaller campaigns.
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It still chugs but has been optimised - you have a host of controls that allow you to speed up the turns of the ai so it flies through them at quite a pace
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I don't really have a problem with Warhammer 2's turn-times, especially after the optimizations CA did with the Empire overhaul back in 2019. Yes, they're still a bit long, but I don't find them to be awful.
What I *do* have a problem with are the game's loading times, especially for battles; they're the single biggest reason why I prefer to auto-resolve combat as much as possible. Loading times are ridiculous, and not just because I currently have a potato for a computer -- they can sometimes take forever even on newer machines.
Don't get me wrong -- Warhammer 2 is fantastic, and I fully applaud what CA has done to bring the world into the Total War franchise. However, the loading times are one reason why I'm not absolutely chomping at the bit for Warhammer 3 (although I'm still looking forward to it), as I fear it will have the same issues, at least/especially at launch.
Also, as far as factions, I enjoyed playing the Tomb Kings and Norsca the most, in the smaller campaigns.
I still gotta try out the Tomb Kings...along with so many other races. :-[ I've spent too much of my time (if such a thing is possible) playing as either the Dwarfs or the Empire to really get around to most of the others yet. ::)
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Loading times I have found to be a significant problem.
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Being laid up is making resisting the temptation to purchase one of the base games very challenging! Bad load times or not...I keep watching youtube videos about the battles and they look just epic.
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Look at it this way, Bison. Getting the game could well be seen as therapy to aid in your recovery and in the retention of your sanity. :whistle:
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Look at it this way, Bison. Getting the game could well be seen as therapy to aid in your recovery and in the retention of your sanity. :whistle:
I dig the logic. Medical necessity!
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Absolutely right., no question about that ;D
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I wonder if you could perhaps write me a prescription? It'd go a long way to reducing the wife imposed you go sleep couch time.
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Just scribble something unintelligible on a bit of official looking paper. Works every time at my pharmacy. ;)
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I know I've used this line with you fellers before but it is still true: I have been playing as a dwarf forever. But have never played as a dwarf in the TW: Warhammer games.
TW: Warhammer 3 looks the most intriguing to me because of the Cathay and Kislev factions...are there any books dedicated to them? As far as I know they have always been on the periphery and don't have dedicated titles.
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You just have to love those dwarves with their big red beards and huge weapons. Some of the men are just as fierce looking as well.
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Just scribble something unintelligible on a bit of official looking paper. Works every time at my pharmacy. ;)
I forged your name on a used napkin. Well it was mostly clean and the crayon only tore it a bit but never the less a piece of paper...and multi-layered paper at that! Now if that is not classy I don't know what is.
Prescription was for one (1) copy of Warhammer II to be administered immediately to the patient named Bison.
I am a weak man given to the occasional impulse purchase. Anyway I went the WH2 route for two reasons primarily. 1.) The base game factions I am most interested in playing in order are the Lizardmen, Vampires, and Skaven. Point WH2. 2.) The DLC I find most interesting are the Norsca, Tomb Kings, and the Vampire Coast. Point WH2.
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:bigthumb:
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Post impressions of your Vampire Coast game!
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Post impressions of your Vampire Coast game!
I have not purchased any DLC. I am going to hold out for a sale. But I did watch a YouTube video and it looks awesome.
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Honestly I think I “purchased” the free DLC but I have no idea if it loaded or not. I also have to make TW site account to get the free DLC from there too.
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There are some dlcs that are free - if you go into steam and the games page you’ll see all the dlc - tick to activate - some dlc unlocks as opposed to installing - I made 2 major dlc purchases recently and nothing loaded - I just ticked to unlock it
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Enjoy, Bison! You can look forward to many hours of fun, even if Skaven suck. ;)
Post impressions of your Vampire Coast game!
Sigh; another group I've barely touched. I'll get around to them eventually, I swear...!
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^I was close to purchasing it when it was new but the price was really high...~18.99 or something.
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Well I am 4 hours into the first campaign. I went with the game's recommendation and am playing the high elves.
Initial impressions...its fun! Probably one of the best tutorial and learn to play advisors systems in the TW games I have played. Definitely a major departure from RTW2 which is the TW game I had been playing over the past couple of days. (Still need to finish my Iberian campaign!)
The biggest highlight was a pyrrhic victory against a wizard (who I think was from the vampiric coast faction) and his army. He just about took out my entire army single handedly. No question he would have won if I had not just recruited several Lorthern Sea Guard units into my army. They held the line and eventually took him out. Seriously, I wish I had the magic that dude was casting. He made my phoenix look weak. Anyway, I am at war with I think 5 other factions. This due in large measure to my honoring the defensive pacts I have with other high elf empires. The strategic situation is tenuous. Magical Sea Pirate Vampires (?) to the west, Dark Elves to the north, Greenskins to the east, and no where to go in the south until I develop a navy.
The one gripe I do have about the game is there is just too much detail (I know heresy) on the campaign map. It just looks, well, ugly. (Too be fair it could be my monitor) I think I have messed with the graphic settings enough to make it look decent. Pretty sure I can do a little more. However, they could have abstracted the terrain a little more and made it a little more pleasant to the eye from my point of view.
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^I was close to purchasing it when it was new but the price was really high...~18.99 or something.
Yeah, it's not exactly cheap. I always advise to wait for a sale now.
Of course, Vampire Coast was the one DLC where I went against my own advice and actually pre-purchased, which entitled me to a modest discount (10 or 20% off -- I forget which). I guess I may as well have waited. :P
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Well I am 4 hours into the first campaign. I went with the game's recommendation and am playing the high elves.
Initial impressions...its fun! Probably one of the best tutorial and learn to play advisors systems in the TW games I have played. Definitely a major departure from RTW2 which is the TW game I had been playing over the past couple of days. (Still need to finish my Iberian campaign!)
The biggest highlight was a pyrrhic victory against a wizard (who I think was from the vampiric coast faction) and his army. He just about took out my entire army single handedly. No question he would have won if I had not just recruited several Lorthern Sea Guard units into my army. They held the line and eventually took him out. Seriously, I wish I had the magic that dude was casting. He made my phoenix look weak. Anyway, I am at war with I think 5 other factions. This due in large measure to my honoring the defensive pacts I have with other high elf empires. The strategic situation is tenuous. Magical Sea Pirate Vampires (?) to the west, Dark Elves to the north, Greenskins to the east, and no where to go in the south until I develop a navy.
Nice. :bigthumb:
Yeah, the High Elves are easily the best choice for when you're learning/new to WH2. They have the best economy in the game, their starting lands in Ulthuan are generally easier to defend than most, and their army roster has no particular weaknesses. (Few, if any, HE units are considered to be "trash tier".)
Uniting the other High Elf factions on Ulthuan into a single nation (via whatever combination of confederation and/or conquest you fancy) is often considered a worthy first goal, especially when playing as Prince Tyrion.
The one gripe I do have about the game is there is just too much detail (I know heresy) on the campaign map. It just looks, well, ugly. (Too be fair it could be my monitor) I think I have messed with the graphic settings enough to make it look decent. Pretty sure I can do a little more. However, they could have abstracted the terrain a little more and made it a little more pleasant to the eye from my point of view.
Thank you!! :applause: I have the same problem with the game's campaign map -- that it's too cluttered/busy -- but whenever I make any sort of comment or complaint about it (at least in the official forums or on Reddit), i get shouted down by the fanbois. :/
Don't get me wrong -- I love the detail -- but it's honestly just a bit too much.
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I agree on the campaign map too - it gets ridiculous to look at after an hour or so. Maybe that's why I am kind of luke warm about the TW:W titles...
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The issue is there are so many little details that want lighting and shading effects, i.e. trees and blades of grass, that it looks like a glittering mess. The default settings for brightness and gamma washed everything out. Just a bad combination making key details like armies, cities, and roads hard to make out. Reducing the gamma and brightness a couple of notches helped a lot. However, the foliage is still messy. The fix I would love is to be able to use the strategic level icons and map layout to zoom in all the way down to the province level without snapping into 3D view. I really do not have this issue at all with the tactical battles.
Anyway, I honestly do thing my monitor is also partly to blame. Its an older and larger (27") 1080p monitor. So it struggles (I think) to keep up with the quick change across 1,000s of pixels each representing a different detail of lighting, shadows, and texture.
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OK after another 30 or so minutes messing with in game settings and the monitor itself, I think I have a very viable solution to the campaign map. The biggest improvement was getting rid of all the extra pixel reflections that was creating a white shimmer around everything. This really is the most I've messed with a games graphics settings to work out a solution.
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Just wait for your retinas to explode in greatness when you lay them on the upcoming Rome: TW enhanced edition!
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Honestly, I am more inclined to go with the Thrones of Britannia over the remastered Rome. I am starting to feel like I am in the minority of TW gamers who prefer RTW2.
Now I totally get what you are saying. Nothing beats remastered 90's graphics for epic visuals!
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I think that, all things considered, FALL OF THE SAMURAI is probably still my favourite TW game.
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I finished a ToB campaign a few weeks ago...it was epic and I got my arse kicked. There is also a 1066 mod available which I have not played yet.
I agree with Bawb - my favorite still is Fall of the Samurai. I wonder if they can ever capture that magic again.
Note that I have not played Three Kingdoms or Troy yet.
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I have never played Fall of the Samurai. It's is certainly highly regarded and I should remedy this some day.
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It seems to crop up in sales quite frequently. Definitely worth getting.
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I have seen it get bundled with other games too at this point. I can't believe that game is 10 years old. Everything about it from the art and graphics to the UI to the music is just timeless and elegant. I think if I could only bring one game with me to The Great Beyond it would be that one.
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Enjoy, Bison! You can look forward to many hours of fun, even if Skaven suck.
My longest save is a skaven campaign and it was such a hard journey to get where I was I needed a rest - they’re a fantastic army to play but you have to embrace the chaos and I’m too neat and tidy for that!
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Honestly, I am more inclined to go with the Thrones of Britannia over the remastered Rome. I am starting to feel like I am in the minority of TW gamers who prefer RTW2.
Not at all. Until Three Kingdoms came along, Rome II had the most active players out of any Total War title. Even now, I believe it's still #2 -- which is pretty remarkable when you consider the game was released almost 8 years ago. And FWIW, Rome II remains my personal favorite out of all the modern Total War titles (with Thrones of Britannia being a pretty close second). :)
It's just that with all the flak Rome II still gets sometimes, I suspect that those who play (and enjoy) the game are a generally silent majority, so it's easy for them to be drowned out by those who only remember the game's (admittedly disastrous) launch.
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Enjoy, Bison! You can look forward to many hours of fun, even if Skaven suck.
My longest save is a skaven campaign and it was such a hard journey to get where I was I needed a rest - they’re a fantastic army to play but you have to embrace the chaos and I’m too neat and tidy for that!
I can definitely identify with that. ;)
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I am around 60-70 turns into my initial campaign and realized I have no plan. It was to be expected having no real idea about how the diplomacy, economy, and technology work in the game. I am pretty sure my economy is in shambles. I have not yet researched the city upgrades to produce any tier 3 military units. And a doom stack of greenskins surprised one of my armies and annihilated it. The struggle is real.
I think I may restart the campaign now that I have a better understanding of the basic mechanics.
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The economy in TWarhammer also flummoxed me. I think it was because it was mostly abstracted.
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From a personal point of view - every location should have at least one money making building and then trade trade trade - sell your soul for that agreement if you have to
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I definitely jumped on every trade agreement which often led to defensive agreement or military alignment. Not necessarily a bad outcome since they were with High Elf factions but I don't really see how the confederation route works yet. The one downside is it ended up hemming me in and limiting my expansion due to the alliances and not want to break them.
I also was all over in city upgrades as I really just wanted to see what they offered to my empire.
Also I underestimated the cost of maintaining several armies which quickly cut into the income in the early game.
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^That last point is the vital one!
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Yup army upkeep is a killer ☹️
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Yup army upkeep is a killer ☹️
Too true. For factions like Etaine (Tyorion) or Reikland (Karl Franz/Volkmar) where you don't necessarily need to go conquering early on, I typically field no more than 2 armies -- that's usually enough to defend what I have, but without breaking the bank.
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Army upkeep always makes me its bitch in all TW games because I always want the new shiny units, but it was particularly noticeable in the WH titles.
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For the majority of the game, my hero lord commanded 16-20 units and I had two smaller armies of 6-8 units guarding two locations that were always under threat. The net result was generally 500-600 excess in funds to focus on building upgrades. I probably could have done away with one of the smaller armies and accepted more risk to have more money. The struggle was getting to level 3+ tier buildings which are pretty expensive and require multiple building lines for the various units.
Anyway, I still really enjoy the game. Just need to relook the economy and building upgrade path. I suspect I need to be slightly more patient with expansion because I had the feeling once I got the conquering ball rolling it would have been hard to stop me.
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^I felt that way in my Gwynned campaign in Thrones of Britannia and then the game re-educated me, with prejudice.
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Well I started a Lizardman campaign...holy moly people were not kidding when they called all of the factions distinct! New technology tree, block really, buildings, units who perform significantly different in combat. Not to mention their starting position is essentially that of Prussia. Surrounded by enemies and little strategic ground to establish choke points. This is going to be an interesting and rough go.
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Never tried them or met them but I understand some of their units are hard as nails in combat
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Prussians or Lizardmen?
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Lizard Prussianmen, clearly.
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Prussians or Lizardmen?
😂😂 lizard men
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Never tried them or met them but I understand some of their units are hard as nails in combat
The one real downside right now is missile units. The high elves, for example, have significantly superior missile units at least the tier 1 units. The lizardmen have skink javelin throwers but the rate of fire and amount of ammo is much less. I have not really seen an appreciable degradation of advancing line units prior to melee combat. And the heavier melee units are pretty slow. I think I need to spam out more of the faster, cheaper skink units to setup a skirmish line to advance behind.
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I’ve seen a video of a guy with high elves decimate an entire lizardmen army with just bows with something called the chequerboard setup - don’t know how or why it works but it was a sight to behold
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The High Elves have, without question, the best missile units in the game. Even their Tier 1 archers are stupidly good (as Bison noted). All my "standard" HE armies consist of at least 4-5 regiments of them. :D
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Same as table top really
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I'll happily take your word for it. :) Although from what I understand, CA has apparently done a decent job of staying faithful to the source material, so I suppose I'm not terribly surprised by that.
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I wish I had the time to do all the painting and assembling necessary to play a tabletop miniatures game.
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For me, I would need both far more patience *and* manual dexterity than I could ever hope to actually possess. :P
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^Ditto. I'd have more luck letting my 8 year old grandson have a go at them with watercolors.
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I don’t think it’s been fully confirmed but I’d read that once GW were happy with the Pc game they blew up the table top game to transition to the new age of sigma
However next year they release the old world which is a return back to fantasy battle
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Yeah, apparently the popularity of the Total War games made GW sit up and realize there were a lot more fans of the fantasy battles than they'd assumed. I've seen quite a few Warhammer fans thanking CA for helping bring it back.
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Makes you wonder how many of those people will go back to the hobby and remain long term. It’s a lot of work to get a table ready army together. I always thought a prepainted line up would do well.
I seem to recall fantasy player base was shrinking pretty dramatically when official support was pulled.
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Makes you wonder how many of those people will go back to the hobby and remain long term.
That's what happened to me and board wargaming. For many years I loved pulling out those cardboard maps, but with kids, pets, etc.... computer gaming filled that niche. I've tried to get back into board gaming a time or two, but we still have pets and now grandkids. And to some degree, it's simply too easy to just sit at my computer and enjoy a game. Or even look at my Steam collection and then go back and play the same old stuff again ::)