Armchair Dragoons Forums
Wargaming => Sci-fi & Fantasy Warfare => Topic started by: Bison on March 02, 2019, 09:58:23 PM
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Anyone play Armidillo Design Bureau’s Fedration Commander? I have been debating whether or not to pick up either Klingon Border or Romulan Border. I like the Star Trek theme and even the 80s design of the counters. I just wonder if GMT’s Talon isn’t a better tactical,space battle game.
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Hey Bison!
I don't have it but have heard good things about it as a faster playing replacement for Star Fleet Battles.
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Yup. I play it quite a bit. It is a streamlined version of Star Fleet Battles but it's still quite involved. It still has a lot of the ideas that were common to games designed in the early/mid 80s. There's a lot of book keeping involved and you'll be spending a lot of time filling in/out energy allocation points for your ships and crossing off damage boxes on ship diagrams. If you have played things like Battletech or Car Wars, you'll get the idea.
I prefer to play the game with miniatures but use the hex system instead of rulers (there are rules for both) but it works just fine with the counters. If you're just looking to get one set, I'd start with the Klingon Border and see if you like the game system. The rules governing the Federation and Klingon ships and weapons systems are fairly straightforward and you'll be able to pick up and play in a short time. The Romulans are a lot tougher to play and are far more unforgiving of mistakes. The rules governing them are more complex (cloaking and plasma torpedoes add a fair degree of complexity) and you'll need to be quite familiar with the timing of all the sub-phases in the game in order to play them effectively. They excel at ambush tactics but are very frail and just can't go toe to toe with Federation ships.
There are a lot of free supplements in the form of new ship cards, scenarios, campaigns, and special rules available for free from the Commander's Circle.
http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/Commanders%20Circle/resources.shtml (http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/Commanders%20Circle/resources.shtml)
The licence that ADB has is a bit weird. From what I understand, their licence is based on a ship technical manual that was put out in the 70s so they can use stuff from the original series and the animated series, but that's it. You've got the Federation, the Klingons, the Romulans, the Gorn, the Tholians, and the Orions and the rest of the races are stuff they made themselves (except the Kizinti which are from another sci-fi series).
The game is a lot of fun IMO but the engine is showing its age and the rules do have some odd omissions. If you do get deep into it, I highly recommend getting the consolidated rulebook. Makes looking things up much easier than constantly flipping through several smaller rules supplements that you get with each expansion pack.
I'd avoid picking up the Tholians. The rules for Tholian webs are game killers. Slow the game down to a crawl and add way too much micro-management.
If you go the minis route, I recommend picking up some Heroclix ship minis. They can be had for $3-5 each and are regularly on sale from Cool Stuff Inc and Noble Knight.
Here are some of the ones I use:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4785/40218528384_648f8f9f79_b.jpg)
Just a few of the charts and tables you'll need to familiarize yourself with.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4778/40218528904_37a75de45f_b.jpg)
Some shots from a scenario I ran at a con last year.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1885/42707296970_0342e2b659_b.jpg)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/817/40218528834_bf6c814557_b.jpg)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/806/40885203792_4cb1ab4cf0_b.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4772/27055761228_991396757c_b.jpg)
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^Pretty much what SDR said. I would only add one thing- don't be afraid to house rule whatever you don't about it.
Well, one more thing. If you do start with Klingon Border (which I also recommend) and want to add Romulan Space, I would recommend getting Romulan Border instead. It's about $20 more than Romulan Border but you get duplicate stuff if get it. I'm actually about to do that myself.
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Thanks for the great break down SDR. Really gives me some thing to consider. If I do decide to pick up Federation Commander, I’ll have to order direct from the company because Klingon Border is hard to find elsewhere online.
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There’s a guy on eBay with a store called Historymakinggames who sells Federation Commander stuff. I got most of mine through him. He’s got it in stock.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/FC-Klingon-Border-New/123532638545?hash=item1cc31e7951:g:Rk0AAOSwnjZcQMv3 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/FC-Klingon-Border-New/123532638545?hash=item1cc31e7951:g:Rk0AAOSwnjZcQMv3)
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^Wow, lots of good stuff there! Thanks for the link. :bigthumb:
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Damn. That game looks/sounds pretty fun.
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Damn. That game looks/sounds pretty fun.
:o YOU'VE never played Star Fleet Battles? :o
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A guy on BGG put up a really nice little animated power point presentation showing how a typical turn plays out with a 1 v 1 fight between a Klingon and a Gorn. It should give you some idea if the game is for you or not.
https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/116322/blaecblaeds-first-turn-warp-through-v100 (https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/116322/blaecblaeds-first-turn-warp-through-v100)
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marcowargamer also has a pretty good video example of Federation Commander game play on his Youtube channel.
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The core rule book is only $18 US on Amazon. Hmm... :nerd:
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Think I'm going to dig out my FASA starship combat rules. That was a pretty decent system and I have a bunch of nice looking ship counters for it.
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I vaguely remember trying the FASA rules back in the 80s...
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They aren't bad rules. Basically a streamlined version of SFB. Still have power allocation,etc. We did a cool thing were we would layer it in to our RPGs. When it came time for ship combat, we'd break out the hex mat and counters. Each player would get a chart for their "station". The Captain would issue orders and it was up to the rest of the crew to execute them as best possible while also reporting back to the Captain. The GM would usually run the OpFor. Sometimes we would have extra players for it so we could have two "crews" fighting it out. Was a fun way of combining the RPG with the ship combat.
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I always used SFB for ship combat when I played FASA Trek and have never tried the FASA starship combat rules. It sounds awesome.
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I still have all the stuff packed away. Including those awesome ship technical manuals for each race. This thread has made me want to break it out.
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I thought FASA had a Star Trek RPG too.
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Back in the 80s they had a Star Trek RPG and a Starship Combat game. They ship combat was a standalone and could be played as a straight tactical game, but it was easy enough to incorporate it into the RPG. We played both a ton when I was in high school/college.
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Basically a streamlined version of SFB.
so.... merely Campaign-for-North-Africa-level complexity?
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I don't think they had to account for extra water rations to boil pasta. The replicator rules streamlined that process.
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SFB was a chore for certain. Had a copy of that in the early 80s and maybe played it once. Man, they had rules for everything.
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It seems I can download free starter rules and scenarios to test out Federation Commander.
http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/FCFirstMissions.pdf
Very cool.
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It seems I can download free starter rules and scenarios to test out Federation Commander.
http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/FCFirstMissions.pdf (http://www.starfleetgames.com/federation/FCFirstMissions.pdf)
Very cool.
I came across that a few days ago. Haven't read it yet.
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SFB was a chore for certain. Had a copy of that in the early 80s and maybe played it once. Man, they had rules for everything.
Energy allocation and all those rules were a nightmare. We ended up creating house rules for a lot of things and basically tossed energy allocation out the window.
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I don't recall energy allocation being as onerous in the FASA game. The charts were pretty intuitive, but it has been 25-30 years since I played it (damn I'm old).
SFB always felt like a bookkeeping exercise.
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Damn. That game looks/sounds pretty fun.
:o YOU'VE never played Star Fleet Battles? :o
For better or worse, no I haven't. I heard so many horror stories about its apparently-insane level of complexity over the years (going back to when I was in college, which is when I first heard about the game), that I shied away from it entirely.
I appreciate complex rules in the spirit of recreating "realism", but I have my limits. :P
That being said, I'm wondering now if I didn't end up playing a "pick-up" match of Federation Commander at a con in Wisconsin several years ago (and just didn't remember what it was called at the time). Looking over the content and reading the overview/description on the official site, this is starting to look a little familiar.
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I played a lot of SFB back in the 80s. the base game was fine but as more and more expansions came out, the complexity ramped up to the point where it was no longer fun to play. I remember attending a con in Spokane, WA and signing up for a game of SFB. They were using a bunch of expansions and the people who organized it thought it would be a good idea to give every player a ship whose main weapons were drone racks. Having to track and move 30+ drones plus everyone's ships, plus all the anti-drone drones over 32 sub phases was ridiculous. I recall firing all my weapons early in a turn and, as I was going speed zero, there was nothing left for me to do. I left, had lunch, sat down and watched a bit of another game being played, and game back. They were still only about 2/3rds of the way through the same turn. I think that was when I stopped playing SFB and sold my copy.
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Expansions...the curse of adding needless rules and clutter to games.
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Not that that has ever stopped us........................
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.......from buying them.... :biggrin:
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twitch twitch
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Expansions...the curse of adding needless rules and clutter to games.
Says the .\\tG player! :hehe:
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I’m trying to get on the pro tour....
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If you do go for the expansions, I'd recommend getting the two Border sets (Klingon and Romulan) and the consolidated rulebook. After that, you can add some of the (______) Attack sets (Romulan, Orion, Hydran, etc) and/or some of the booster packs. The (_____) Attacks sets add new ship data cards and counters as well as some new map panels and a rules/scenario book that covers whatever it is that the expansion is focusing on. If you bought the consolidated rulebook, all of the rules will already be in there but the scenarios won't be. The booster packs add new counters and ship data cards.
You can also get .pdf versions of ship cards and rulebooks at DriverthruRPG and download free ship cards and scenarios at the link I provided earlier.
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Good recommendation. I really like the fact you can order essentially a la cart from ADB. Extra counter sheets for purchase is great. I wish this was a more universal option for replacement or additional counters from more companies. Extra expense and not practical for most I know. If I understand correctly ADB prints on demand which allows them to sell product this way.