Armchair Dragoons Forums

Wargaming => Intel Dump => Topic started by: mirth on August 01, 2019, 09:11:22 PM

Title: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 01, 2019, 09:11:22 PM
Not a great article, imo. It also doesn't bother me in the least that SoA was pulled. I thought it was a poor choice for a game regardless and is not anything I would have owned or played.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/01/style/board-games-cancel-culture.html?action=click&module=Editors%20Picks&pgtype=Homepage
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 01, 2019, 09:12:33 PM
They covered all the same ground we did back in April
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 01, 2019, 09:14:42 PM
They covered all the same ground we did back in April

Slightly wider audience though  ;)
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 01, 2019, 09:16:19 PM
They covered all the same ground we did back in April

Slightly wider audience though  ;)


Yep. Plus they were able to get quotes from people we never could


https://www.armchairdragoons.com/feature/conflicts-around-the-table-gmt-gets-to-publish-whatever-they-want/ (https://www.armchairdragoons.com/feature/conflicts-around-the-table-gmt-gets-to-publish-whatever-they-want/)
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bbmike on August 02, 2019, 08:59:32 AM
Not a great article, imo. It also doesn't bother me in the least that SoA was pulled. I thought it was a poor choice for a game regardless and is not anything I would have owned or played.


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/01/style/board-games-cancel-culture.html?action=click&module=Editors%20Picks&pgtype=Homepage

I completely agree with your assessment about the article and the game.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 02, 2019, 09:17:29 AM
Including the Klan rally picture really pissed me off. That just completely misrepresents the hobby to that wider audience and/or reinforces those that look at board games with derision and disdain. A picture/thousand words/etc.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 02, 2019, 09:21:00 AM
It annoys me a little to have the perception be that I somehow sympathize with Nazis Germany or Confederate South if I play as those sides in games. OTOH, I have actually seen assholes at cons wearing ball caps with SS divisional emblems as though they were their favorite fucking baseball teams. The Wehrmact world tour t-shirts are classy AF too.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bbmike on August 02, 2019, 09:24:00 AM
Yeah, the bit about you are being sympathetic to whoever you are playing as was just plain ignorant. There did seem to be a lot of ignorance in the article.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 02, 2019, 09:37:03 AM
The article seemed to be directed toward the more casual boardgaming audience. SoA definitely seemed to targeted toward more casual gamers.

I thought this was completely accurate:

Quote
"Most eurogames are designed to maximize the gameplay, or mechanics, with the theme an afterthought. A common criticism of many games is that the theme feels pasted on. With such little attention often paid to the story, the ranks of historically inaccurate or outright racist modern games are lengthy."

That's a big reason why I dislike and don't play eurogames. They are mechanic focused with a "theme" bolted on top.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 02, 2019, 09:37:07 AM
There did seem to be a lot of ignorance in the article.


I promise you that it is dwarfed by the ignorance in the ongoing FB discussion in the WGers group right now.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 02, 2019, 09:38:18 AM
The article seemed to be directed toward the more casual boardgaming audience. SoA definitely seemed to targeted toward more casual gamers.

I thought this was completely accurate:

Quote
"Most eurogames are designed to maximize the gameplay, or mechanics, with the theme an afterthought. A common criticism of many games is that the theme feels pasted on. With such little attention often paid to the story, the ranks of historically inaccurate or outright racist modern games are lengthy."

That's a big reason why I dislike and don't play eurogames. They are mechanic focused with a "theme" bolted on top.


Alongside this, the author does take the time to discuss how a game like Puerto Rico has some obvious racial issues in its theme that everyone seems to want to ignore.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bbmike on August 02, 2019, 09:41:18 AM
There did seem to be a lot of ignorance in the article.


I promise you that it is dwarfed by the ignorance in the ongoing FB discussion in the WGers group right now.

I don't doubt that.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 02, 2019, 09:44:12 AM
There did seem to be a lot of ignorance in the article.


I promise you that it is dwarfed by the ignorance in the ongoing FB discussion in the WGers group right now.

It's difficult to defend the hobby when many of its participants are misogynists and racists.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Barthheart on August 02, 2019, 10:14:06 AM
There did seem to be a lot of ignorance in the article.


I promise you that it is dwarfed by the ignorance in the ongoing FB discussion in the WGers group right now.

It's difficult to defend the hobby when many of its participants are misogynists and racists.

But that just points out what is wrong with society today... if you happen to do activity A and some who also do activity A are assholes then EVERYONE who does activity A is an asshole because you do activity A.

The human race is fucked and we don't deserve Mars....  :buck2:
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bbmike on August 02, 2019, 10:23:13 AM
^ Spot on.  :2thumbs:
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 02, 2019, 10:27:58 AM
But that just points out what is wrong with society today... if you happen to do activity A and some who also do activity A are assholes then EVERYONE who does activity A is an asshole because you do activity A.

The problem is that the assholes are the also ones who tend to be the most vocal and become de facto the representatives for everyone.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 02, 2019, 10:35:00 AM
The problem is that the assholes are the also ones who tend to be the most vocal and become de facto the representatives for everyone.


this is true of pretty much any group
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Barthheart on August 02, 2019, 10:46:06 AM
But that just points out what is wrong with society today... if you happen to do activity A and some who also do activity A are assholes then EVERYONE who does activity A is an asshole because you do activity A.

The problem is that the assholes are the also ones who tend to be the most vocal and become de facto the representatives for everyone.

The problem is that people can't be bothered to see what the rest of any group is like... it's called fucking lazy....
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 02, 2019, 11:05:06 AM
But that just points out what is wrong with society today... if you happen to do activity A and some who also do activity A are assholes then EVERYONE who does activity A is an asshole because you do activity A.

The problem is that the assholes are the also ones who tend to be the most vocal and become de facto the representatives for everyone.

The problem is that people can't be bothered to see what the rest of any group is like... it's called fucking lazy....

It's called perception is reality.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 02, 2019, 11:06:02 AM
Empathy is a lost art.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 02, 2019, 11:15:10 AM
The problem is that the assholes are the also ones who tend to be the most vocal and become de facto the representatives for everyone.


this is true of pretty much any group

Sure, I just don't think it should come as a surprise to any group when they are the ones that garner attention from the larger world.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Sir Slash on August 02, 2019, 11:16:33 AM
I've never known any of the 'Klukkers' or SS Fan Boys to be intelligent enough to play any REAL games.  I think they're just Wargame Wannabees. So, don't paint us all with the same brush NYT.  >:(
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 02, 2019, 11:22:35 AM
The SS fanbois definitely play. I can't say that I've found any I've encountered to be particularly intelligent or good players, but they are not uncommon within the hobby.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: trailrunner on August 02, 2019, 12:06:02 PM
The SS fanbois definitely play. I can't say that I've found any I've encountered to be particularly intelligent or good players, but they are not uncommon within the hobby.

I'm still relatively new to wargaming, and I find this surprising.  Although on the other hand, I'm sure they're out there just like they are in the general population, and maybe more so in a white-male-conservative-leaning hobby like wargaming, so I really shouldn't be surprised.  I never really put two and two together and thought that modern-day Nazis would play out their Nazi fantasies on the German side of a wargame.  I'm naive.

Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 02, 2019, 12:10:20 PM
I've never known any of the 'Klukkers' or SS Fan Boys to be intelligent enough to play any REAL games.  I think they're just Wargame Wannabees. So, don't paint us all with the same brush NYT.  >:(


I dunno - I didn't take that away from the article at all. 
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 02, 2019, 12:12:17 PM
I'm still relatively new to wargaming, and I find this surprising.  Although on the other hand, I'm sure they're out there just like they are in the general population, and maybe more so in a white-male-conservative-leaning hobby like wargaming, so I really shouldn't be surprised.  I never really put two and two together and thought that modern-day Nazis would play out their Nazi fantasies on the German side of a wargame.  I'm naive.

I'm naive too. It was quite a jolt the first time I saw a dude wearing a Das Reich ball cap.


Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 02, 2019, 12:27:32 PM
I've never known any of the 'Klukkers' or SS Fan Boys to be intelligent enough to play any REAL games.  I think they're just Wargame Wannabees. So, don't paint us all with the same brush NYT.  >:(


I dunno - I didn't take that away from the article at all.

Someone in the WG thread on FB mentioned they'd seen a dude playing in the minis hall, dressed in a "full SS uniform." Wearing an SS ball cap is pretty odd, but Lord, a full flippin' SS uniform?
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 02, 2019, 12:58:53 PM
I suspect that the crowds at most cons you attend are very different than most wargaming/minis focused cons. I can say for certain that the crowd at Origins is substantially different than say Historicon.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Barthheart on August 02, 2019, 01:02:56 PM
I see a lot more idiots at Cons wearing leftist insanity glorifying communists than I do Nazi/Confederate stuff.
...

Sigh... stuff like this does not help. What age were the "idiots" wearing the "leftist insanity glorifying communists" stuff? Most I'd gather were too young to even understand what they were wearing...
And just what is "leftist insanity glorifying communists" stuff?
Jackholes wearing SS anything know exactly what they are wearing....
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 02, 2019, 01:03:46 PM
When I did E3 with the Wargamer crew back in 2003, the game Blitzkrieg was being pimped. The developer had imposing actors dressed in full Wehrmacht uniforms, sporting (fake) MP-40s. Something like that, I totally get (it certainly drew attention, which is what they wanted). Just being a random dude wanting to dress like that...well, it reminds me of the Halloween episode of South Park where Cartman dressed up like Hitler. I don't dare search for that clip here at work.  ;D
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on August 02, 2019, 01:18:33 PM
I see a lot more idiots at Cons wearing leftist insanity glorifying communists than I do Nazi/Confederate stuff.
...

Sigh... stuff like this does not help. What age were the "idiots" wearing the "leftist insanity glorifying communists" stuff? Most I'd gather were too young to even understand what they were wearing...
And just what is "leftist insanity glorifying communists" stuff?
Jackholes wearing SS anything know exactly what they are wearing....

Not necessarily.  Out here on the west coast, I’ve met a handful of middle aged radicals sporting Che shirts, hammer and sickle hats and pins, and even a Mao hat.  They all worked in education and After having had to endure their babble, I’m convinced they’re all adherents.  I also saw a fair number of young  cosplay girls dressed up as Nazis at a con in Osaka and I’m pretty sure they were doing it because of Hugo Boss, not Lebensraum. 

I try to avoid fanatics of any stripe.  I find them tiring. 
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Barthheart on August 02, 2019, 01:22:47 PM
...
I try to avoid fanatics of any stripe.  I find them tiring.

This.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bbmike on August 02, 2019, 01:43:59 PM
...
I try to avoid fanatics of any stripe.  I find them tiring.

This.

Hey, I've only worn my Starfleet uniform twice!
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Barthheart on August 02, 2019, 01:50:13 PM
...
I try to avoid fanatics of any stripe.  I find them tiring.

This.

Hey, I've only worn my Starfleet uniform twice!

No one wants to hear about yer sexlife….
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 02, 2019, 01:58:09 PM
He did it with a Horta.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bbmike on August 02, 2019, 02:04:53 PM
Ensigns are easy.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 02, 2019, 02:20:17 PM
Ensigns are easy.

 :ROFL:
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on August 02, 2019, 02:25:14 PM
...
I try to avoid fanatics of any stripe.  I find them tiring.

This.

Hey, I've only worn my Starfleet uniform twice!

Dude! I ran a game of Federation Commander at a con last year.  I spent a lot of time designing and playtesting a scenario for it beforehand with a few different groups and, after a bit of balancing, it was very well received.  Romulan players liked the risk/reward involved with the experimental weapon system.  Federation players liked the uncertainty/discovery aspect of the scenario.

 Day of the con came and I had a full slate of players signed up.  Sadly two of them were hardcore Star Trek/Star Fleet Battles nerds.  One spend several turns moaning about how the scenario background  was wrong because the Romulans wouldn't do that!  And they'd never have weapons like these on their ships!...blah blah blah.  Then both SFB players got ganked hard because they assumed some of the core rules between Federation Commander and SFB would be the same.  They weren't and shields in FC are far less robust than in SFB.  End result= total disaster of a session. 

God damned Trekkies...Just shut up and play the game.  I thought the scenario was pretty cool myself. 




Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 02, 2019, 02:30:06 PM
I thought the scenario was pretty cool myself.

looks very cool :bigthumb:
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bbmike on August 02, 2019, 04:35:21 PM
...
I try to avoid fanatics of any stripe.  I find them tiring.

This.

Hey, I've only worn my Starfleet uniform twice!

Dude! I ran a game of Federation Commander at a con last year.  I spent a lot of time designing and playtesting a scenario for it beforehand with a few different groups and, after a bit of balancing, it was very well received.  Romulan players liked the risk/reward involved with the experimental weapon system.  Federation players liked the uncertainty/discovery aspect of the scenario.

 Day of the con came and I had a full slate of players signed up.  Sadly two of them were hardcore Star Trek/Star Fleet Battles nerds.  One spend several turns moaning about how the scenario background  was wrong because the Romulans wouldn't do that!  And they'd never have weapons like these on their ships!...blah blah blah.  Then both SFB players got ganked hard because they assumed some of the core rules between Federation Commander and SFB would be the same.  They weren't and shields in FC are far less robust than in SFB.  End result= total disaster of a session. 

God damned Trekkies...Just shut up and play the game.  I thought the scenario was pretty cool myself.

Which is funny because other Star Trek nerds would have bitched to them about how Star Fleet Battles isn't real Star Trek.  ;D
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 02, 2019, 06:46:04 PM
the thread in the WGers group on FB got nuked.  The surprise isn't that it got nuked, but that it took 48 hours to get nuked.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bbmike on August 02, 2019, 08:00:28 PM
BBMike - since you have kept your young, girlish figure - you can still fit into the Starfleet Uniform of your younger days.  Unlike Shatner who needed a "fat fold" in his uniform to hide his expanding dimensions.

True.  ;D
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bbmike on August 02, 2019, 08:00:47 PM
the thread in the WGers group on FB got nuked.  The surprise isn't that it got nuked, but that it took 48 hours to get nuked.

Truth.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 03, 2019, 01:38:34 AM
the thread in the WGers group on FB got nuked.  The surprise isn't that it got nuked, but that it took 48 hours to get nuked.

goddamn SJWs running Facebook
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Martok on August 04, 2019, 12:32:08 AM
Dude! I ran a game of Federation Commander at a con last year.  I spent a lot of time designing and playtesting a scenario for it beforehand with a few different groups and, after a bit of balancing, it was very well received.  Romulan players liked the risk/reward involved with the experimental weapon system.  Federation players liked the uncertainty/discovery aspect of the scenario.

 Day of the con came and I had a full slate of players signed up.  Sadly two of them were hardcore Star Trek/Star Fleet Battles nerds.  One spend several turns moaning about how the scenario background  was wrong because the Romulans wouldn't do that!  And they'd never have weapons like these on their ships!...blah blah blah.  Then both SFB players got ganked hard because they assumed some of the core rules between Federation Commander and SFB would be the same.  They weren't and shields in FC are far less robust than in SFB.  End result= total disaster of a session. 

God damned Trekkies...Just shut up and play the game.  I thought the scenario was pretty cool myself.

Hey, I'm a Trekkie!  And I think it looked/sounded fun. 

(I haven't been to a con in forever, dang it.  I miss it...) 
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Barthheart on August 05, 2019, 09:33:27 AM
Interesting “essay” on BGG...

https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/93147/playing-slavery-new-edition-struggle-empires

Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 05, 2019, 10:27:58 AM
Interesting “essay” on BGG...

https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/93147/playing-slavery-new-edition-struggle-empires (https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/93147/playing-slavery-new-edition-struggle-empires)


that was a remarkably cogent article for BGG


thanks
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: ojsdad on August 05, 2019, 12:04:07 PM
This same article can be written for just about every game that makes up this hobby we all enjoy. 

We had better be careful, or the same uninformed people, like the writer of this opinion piece, and yes, that's all the more it is, will find reason to stop just about every game from being made in the future. 
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 05, 2019, 02:29:44 PM
Sounds like we might need our own article addressing this, though it seems to me that this is dangerously close to a political discussion.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 05, 2019, 02:33:14 PM
Sounds like we might need our own article addressing this, though it seems to me that this is dangerously close to a political discussion.


le sigh


https://www.armchairdragoons.com/feature/conflicts-around-the-table-gmt-gets-to-publish-whatever-they-want/

Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 05, 2019, 02:34:59 PM
I was being facetious, Brant.  :ROFL:

My version of, "there's a Front Page?"
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 05, 2019, 02:38:06 PM
I was being facetious, Brant.  :ROFL:

My version of, "there's a Front Page?"


I'm laughing. :waiting:
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Sir Slash on August 05, 2019, 02:44:18 PM
They can have my wargames when they pry them from my cold, dead fingers. Second thought, not even then!  >:(
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 05, 2019, 03:01:37 PM
This is not an unexpected outome of games becoming more mainstream and lighter games trying to use more serious topics that they will never be able to handle in a meaningful way. Trying to design and publish a euro-style game on the 19th century colonization of Africa was a bad idea.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: panzerde on August 05, 2019, 05:57:18 PM
...
I try to avoid fanatics of any stripe.  I find them tiring.

This.

Very few people get pissed if you play wearing a Napoleonic marshal's hat. You aren't generally going to get painted as a bigot for seeming like you sympathize and admire Savoy when playing a game about the War of Spanish Succession.

Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on August 05, 2019, 06:48:30 PM
No, they’ll just put you in a nice room where you can “rest” until you’re better.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4QlZmS5gO7s/S0w6WeMlQBI/AAAAAAAABb4/vbu3GcWcS4M/s320/Napoleon08.jpg)
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: panzerde on August 05, 2019, 06:58:08 PM
No, they’ll just put you in a nice room where you can “rest” until you’re better.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4QlZmS5gO7s/S0w6WeMlQBI/AAAAAAAABb4/vbu3GcWcS4M/s320/Napoleon08.jpg)

Only if your opponent is Bugs Bunny.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Sir Slash on August 05, 2019, 07:45:58 PM
I would rather fight Chuck Norris AND Thanos than mess with, "The Bugs".  :notme:
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bbmike on August 05, 2019, 08:17:47 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/03/23/97/0323974556cbc33fb6ec8c04dbf071a9.jpg)
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Sir Slash on August 05, 2019, 11:17:21 PM
Uh oh. Somebody's gonna be in trouble now. His real name is, 'Numb-Chuck Norris'.  :worried:
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 05, 2019, 11:39:00 PM
I'll just leave this here

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/4/8/1848702/-GMT-Games-The-Scramble-for-Africa-and-RWNJs
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bbmike on August 06, 2019, 06:21:35 AM
Even if things do get tight for GMT they should be able to get by on what I give them. (http://www.aarcentral.com/emoti/HideEyes.gif)
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Barthheart on August 06, 2019, 08:45:35 AM
I'll just leave this here

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/4/8/1848702/-GMT-Games-The-Scramble-for-Africa-and-RWNJs

[sarcasm]
Well at least he’s helping thing by calling people names....
[/sarcasm]

 ::)

Intelligent discourse is dead.....
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Sir Slash on August 06, 2019, 12:13:16 PM
Never mind Africa. When does the scramble for Canada begin?  Cause I want get me some of that beer. And maybe a hockey team.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 06, 2019, 12:42:09 PM
I might be bass-ackwards on this, but I see games that simulate historic/actual events to be something of a teaching tool. Actually participating and doing in a simulation of the region/events at the time will, for me anyway, bring a breadth of understanding and empathy that was previously simple ignorance of a subject. As opposed to seeking out books and reading about what happened first; I'd rather go through a game to learn about something, and if it's interesting, I'll pursue reading on the subject to see how it actually happened.

I admit ignorance in general of how Africa was carved up by the powers-that-be at the time, though the motivators are obvious. While Scramble For Africa being deep sixed is not a huge loss to me, I think it is a missed opportunity to offer insight and possibly expanding horizons of those interested in this history and how things panned out.

You guys know me (well, most of you). I'm not screaming pro-SJW or anti-SJW sentiments, here. A game is a game is a game. We all play games that the normies reading the NYT would probably gasp in horror over. I truly don't see Scramble For Africa as being that big a deal...it really would depend on how it portrays some things. It's not like we're talking about Juden Raus here, though I can certainly see how it could be perceived that way.

In the same vein, playing the Germans in any Eastern Front game could be seen as glorifying Nazism and the destruction of Slavs, Jews, or anyone else, even if those very events are not 'simulated' in such games.

The line is way too fuzzy and gray to draw between what's 'acceptable' and what's not, though some games certainly fall clearly in one category or another.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: ojsdad on August 06, 2019, 12:47:31 PM
Well said BC.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Barthheart on August 06, 2019, 02:11:55 PM
Agree, well said BC... but then you are a reasonable person with no agenda in either direction... as are most people in the world and even more of those that play games.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Sir Slash on August 06, 2019, 03:32:25 PM
Well said by all! My only agenda is having no agendas. On that I'm quite partisan.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 09, 2019, 03:59:50 PM
we managed to get 1:40 out of this one...

https://www.armchairdragoons.com/podcast/mentioned-in-dispatches-special-summer-2019-edition/ (https://www.armchairdragoons.com/podcast/mentioned-in-dispatches-special-summer-2019-edition/)


And yes, Capt Darwin, I managed to work in both the hootenanny and kerfuffle references.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 09, 2019, 05:45:21 PM
I managed to work in both the hootenanny and kerfuffle references.

...but you do that in EVERY podcast, ever!  ???
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 09, 2019, 05:58:27 PM
I managed to work in both the hootenanny and kerfuffle references.

...but you do that in EVERY podcast, ever!  ???


I meant in the article around the podcast.  I don't think we actually used either in the recording.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 09, 2019, 06:08:44 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bbmike on August 09, 2019, 08:38:03 PM
We have a podcast?  :o
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Martok on August 09, 2019, 10:57:40 PM
Technically, yes.  "Podcast" sounds more professional than "Listening to mirth ramble while he's drunk". 
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 09, 2019, 11:11:03 PM
Mirth's drunk ramblings are far more entertaining than most's sober pontifications.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Martok on August 10, 2019, 03:04:44 PM
You're not wrong about that.  :) 
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 10, 2019, 03:32:59 PM
Mirth's drunk ramblings are far more entertaining than most's sober pontifications.


AFAIK, Bruce Heard has not renewed the restraining order against Mirth after that episode.


But we've also never been able to get Bruce to come back to either show  :whistle:
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Arctic Blast on August 10, 2019, 04:18:25 PM
Mirth's drunk ramblings are far more entertaining than most's sober pontifications.

This should be the basis for a second podcast. Give mirth a bottle of whiskey and a microphone and press record.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 10, 2019, 04:35:32 PM
Mirth's drunk ramblings are far more entertaining than most's sober pontifications.

This should be the basis for a second podcast. Give mirth a bottle of whiskey and a microphone and press record.


that's already pretty much any one he's on
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bbmike on August 10, 2019, 06:31:29 PM
Mirth's drunk ramblings are far more entertaining than most's sober pontifications.


AFAIK, Bruce Heard has not renewed the restraining order against Mirth after that episode.


But we've also never been able to get Bruce to come back to either show  :whistle:

Why a minor D&D person on the podcast?

I wasn't available.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 10, 2019, 06:45:40 PM
Why a minor D&D person on the podcast?


He was a guest waaaaaay back on S2 of the GrogCast when his Calidar books were first coming out.  We talked about the old BECMI days at TSR, the early forays TSR had into the web, and then a bunch of his new Calidar stuff.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: ojsdad on August 11, 2019, 11:00:11 PM
Mirth's drunk ramblings are far more entertaining than most's sober pontifications.

This should be the basis for a second podcast. Give mirth a bottle of whiskey and a microphone and press record.

So, he would do his Bill Murray impression.  :bigthumb:
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 12, 2019, 07:23:20 AM
I would pay to subscribe to "The Drunk Mirthcast."  :bigthumb:
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 12, 2019, 10:14:10 AM
I would pay to subscribe to "The Drunk Mirthcast."  :bigthumb:

Finally, my path to financial success
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 12, 2019, 10:38:03 AM
I would pay to subscribe to "The Drunk Mirthcast."  :bigthumb:

Finally, my path to financial success


Having BC subsidize your podcast ramblings might not get you too far.  Unless you can live on Amazon credit from surveys :)
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: mirth on August 12, 2019, 10:40:23 AM
I would pay to subscribe to "The Drunk Mirthcast."  :bigthumb:

Finally, my path to financial success


Having MD subsidize your podcast ramblings might not get you too far.  Unless you can live on Amazon credit from surveys :)

Wrong initials.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 12, 2019, 10:55:30 AM
 :doh:
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Sir Slash on August 12, 2019, 12:47:36 PM
I would pay to see a Drunk Mirth-cast. I would also pay to see a drunk Mirth cast, I wonder if he would hook the lure on his hat or the back of his pants? I would also pay to see a drunk Mirth IN a cast, hopefully not seriously injured, trying to paint a picture or walk up a flight of stairs maybe. The key word here is, 'drunk' as you can tell. There are many drunken Mirth possibilities.  :applause:
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 12, 2019, 12:50:34 PM
There's a Beer and Board Games channel on YouTube that I used to watch regularly, though I lost interest as most of their 'good' content was locked behind a pay wall.

A drunk gaming podcast (I mean starting buzzed and then going full well-and-truly-rippled) would be far more entertaining.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: panzerde on August 12, 2019, 07:02:48 PM
There's a Beer and Board Games channel on YouTube that I used to watch regularly, though I lost interest as most of their 'good' content was locked behind a pay wall.

A drunk gaming podcast (I mean starting buzzed and then going full well-and-truly-rippled) would be far more entertaining.

This is essentially "Saturday Nite Fights"
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Martok on August 12, 2019, 10:12:11 PM
There's a Beer and Board Games channel on YouTube that I used to watch regularly, though I lost interest as most of their 'good' content was locked behind a pay wall.

A drunk gaming podcast (I mean starting buzzed and then going full well-and-truly-rippled) would be far more entertaining.

This is essentially "Saturday Nite Fights"

Good.  I'm glad I wasn't just imagining it.  :P 
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: panzerde on August 12, 2019, 10:53:56 PM
This is essentially "Saturday Nite Fights"

Good.  I'm glad I wasn't just imagining it.  :P

It's in the mission statement.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Sir Slash on August 12, 2019, 11:01:46 PM
We have a Mission Statement?  :o  What happened to the Prime Directive we had? "No interaction with inferior civilizations that may result in influencing their development unless it involves Bacon or Bourbon".  :nope:
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 13, 2019, 12:56:27 AM
I'll have to join you sooner or later, then. Seems every damned weekend has something coming up. This weekend I'm taking my kid to school.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Barthheart on August 13, 2019, 06:24:28 AM
SNF won’t return to the “air” until our glorious leader returns from dragging his family through obscure battlefield locations in Austria.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: panzerde on August 13, 2019, 01:07:08 PM
We have a Mission Statement?  :o  What happened to the Prime Directive we had? "No interaction with inferior civilizations that may result in influencing their development unless it involves Bacon or Bourbon".  :nope:

We still have that, too. I think we may have it written on a scroll somewhere. We also have a gong.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Arctic Blast on August 13, 2019, 03:16:35 PM
I would pay to subscribe to "The Drunk Mirthcast."  :bigthumb:

Finally, my path to financial success

You'd spend so much on alcohol that you'll probably end up in debt.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 13, 2019, 03:41:53 PM
Not if he's sponsored by the big boys.

"The Drunk Mirthcast: Brought to you by Guinness."  :ROFL:
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 13, 2019, 05:15:45 PM
This thread has been hijacked by those encouraging Mirth to drink more when being recorded.


As though he needs encouragement
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bbmike on August 13, 2019, 05:51:37 PM
SNF won’t return to the “air” until our glorious leader returns from dragging his family through obscure battlefield locations in Austria.

Don't you have guest hosts?
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Martok on August 13, 2019, 11:28:10 PM
This thread has been hijacked by those encouraging Mirth to drink more when being recorded.

In hindsight, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. 
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: bayonetbrant on August 15, 2019, 09:54:24 AM
When the discussion of Hughes' article in Battles! Magazine dragged on for several months, Olivier dumped this in the forum on CSW to deflate the discussion with excellent and well-timed humor

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.1dd388f5/5836

Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 20, 2019, 12:52:16 PM
When the discussion of Hughes' article in Battles! Magazine dragged on for several months, Olivier dumped this in the forum on CSW to deflate the discussion with excellent and well-timed humor

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.1dd388f5/5836

 :2funny:
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: Arctic Blast on August 23, 2019, 05:06:38 PM
Not if he's sponsored by the big boys.

"The Drunk Mirthcast: Brought to you by Guinness."  :ROFL:

That's gonna take waaayyyyyyyy too long. We need the sort of rot gut whiskey that will probably also deliver ulcers.
Title: Re: NYT Covers Scramble for Africa Controversy
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2020, 03:03:19 PM
Not if he's sponsored by the big boys.

"The Drunk Mirthcast: Brought to you by Guinness."  :ROFL:

That's gonna take waaayyyyyyyy too long. We need the sort of rot gut whiskey that will probably also deliver ulcers.

"The Drunk Mirthcast: Brought to you by Mad Dog 40/Olde English."