Armchair Dragoons Forums

News:

  • Connections Online 2024 will be held 15-20 April, 2024 ~~ More Info here
  • Buckeye Game Fest will be held May 2-5, 2024, with The War Room opening on 29 April ~~ More Info here

News

Buckeye Game Fest will be held May 2-5, 2024, with The War Room opening on 29 April ~~ More Info here

Author Topic: Longbow versus plate  (Read 5630 times)

panzerde

  • Corporal
  • **
  • Posts: 1236
  • Kriegsherr
    • Cry Havoc
on: December 24, 2019, 04:02:02 PM
This is a really fantastic video of a series of tests done to determine the ability of Agincourt-era longbows/arrows to penetrate plate armor, specifically breastplates. The experiment is done with great rigor. The results are very informative. Well worth watching.



I actually don't really like games.

Castellan -  La Fraternite des Boutons Carres


mirth

  • Cardboard Mohel
  • Lance Sergeant
  • ****
  • Posts: 7291
    • Armchair Dragoons
Reply #1 on: December 24, 2019, 05:02:51 PM
This is outstanding. Thanks for posting it  :bigthumb:

Being able to Google shit better than your clients is a legit career skill.


BanzaiCat

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Lance Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 6561
  • Puns Puns Puns Puns
Reply #2 on: May 10, 2020, 10:11:41 PM
Apropos of little, just discovered my daughter and her mom's side of the family are related to an English knight that died at Agincourt.

============================================

Solosaurus Podcast: https://solosaurus.libsyn.com/
(includes Solosaurus Plays)


bob48

  • Smeghead.
  • Warrant Officer
  • Lead Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 11715
Reply #3 on: May 11, 2020, 07:27:34 AM
Time to do some historical digging then.

“O Lord God, let me not be disgraced in my old days.”

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'


besilarius

  • Corporal
  • **
  • Posts: 1558
Reply #4 on: May 11, 2020, 08:28:26 AM
Hmm.  Richard III was found hiding in a car park.  Search deeply.

"These things must be done delicately-- or you hurt the spell."  - The Wicked Witch of the West.
"We've got the torpedo damage temporarily shored up, the fires out and soon will have the ship back on an even keel. But I would suggest, sir, that if you have to take any more torpedoes, you take 'em on the starboard side."   Pops Healy, DCA USS Lexington.


panzerde

  • Corporal
  • **
  • Posts: 1236
  • Kriegsherr
    • Cry Havoc
Reply #5 on: May 11, 2020, 11:31:38 AM
Hmm.  Richard III was found hiding in a car park.  Search deeply.


Didn't really help him much, either. They still found him, dodging around behind the Minis and Peugots


I actually don't really like games.

Castellan -  La Fraternite des Boutons Carres


72z

  • Jr. Trooper
  • *
  • Posts: 55
    • History Design Center
Reply #6 on: June 01, 2020, 05:48:01 PM
There is a modifier in all of this though -and that would be 14th to 15th century physiology. I think I read something that those guys back then did nothing but train on those longbows with the impact that in effected their physique.

What I am saying is that their arms appeared to have developed differently with all of this training (for example I play hockey, and after awhile because I shoot lefty - that ends up impacting everything to do with my arms- like I find it tough to now through a baseball like a baseball - because of the way things gradually worked out) - and with this I am talking like things like injuries over an extended period of time, and probably overstressing the body with what could be equated as regular repetitive bowstring pulling.

I think I read somewhere (it might even have been some of Bernard Cornwell's or maybe Conn Iggulden's notes) that people around nowadays would find it nearly impossible to pull back on an actual period build longbow as they were that long and the strings were that taut.

That should have had an impact on projectile velocity... (if true, that is ...)  I do buy the part about the bodies' development - really this was about all some of those guys in that profession were able to do back in that period.



panzerde

  • Corporal
  • **
  • Posts: 1236
  • Kriegsherr
    • Cry Havoc
Reply #7 on: June 01, 2020, 05:55:56 PM
If you watch the video, the dude doing the shooting is both using a period bow, and exhibits the physiological changes. He's trained with the bow since he was a teenager, essentially replicating what a 14th century archer would have done.


Skeletons unearthed at Towton and other battles from the Wars of the Roses show archers with the unique skeletal developments. It most definitely did happen. It was this very need to develop a longbow archer over a period of years that eventually led to the adoption of firearms in England. You could train a musketeer in a month.


I actually don't really like games.

Castellan -  La Fraternite des Boutons Carres


besilarius

  • Corporal
  • **
  • Posts: 1558
Reply #8 on: June 01, 2020, 09:21:12 PM
There is evidence from the Renaissance that oarsmen on galleys developed in a lopsided manner if they only pulled on one side.
If they were only on the left bank of oats, then the muscles on your left side became bigger and stronger.
If you only pulled on the starboard oarsmen, your right side became bigger and stronger.
The Venetian s recognized this and trained their oarmen to work on both sets of oarsmen.
Also, contrary to Hollywood, they did not use slaves.

"These things must be done delicately-- or you hurt the spell."  - The Wicked Witch of the West.
"We've got the torpedo damage temporarily shored up, the fires out and soon will have the ship back on an even keel. But I would suggest, sir, that if you have to take any more torpedoes, you take 'em on the starboard side."   Pops Healy, DCA USS Lexington.


72z

  • Jr. Trooper
  • *
  • Posts: 55
    • History Design Center
Reply #9 on: June 02, 2020, 09:23:33 AM
If you watch the video, the dude doing the shooting is both using a period bow, and exhibits the physiological changes. He's trained with the bow since he was a teenager, essentially replicating what a 14th century archer would have done.


Skeletons unearthed at Towton and other battles from the Wars of the Roses show archers with the unique skeletal developments. It most definitely did happen. It was this very need to develop a longbow archer over a period of years that eventually led to the adoption of firearms in England. You could train a musketeer in a month.

Yes, sure that sounds reasonable and it that would be right about the shot angle.  I think that I probably did sort of sort of a quick view  -so I would have missed some details -and maybe it bears watching more closely than that, because the question I have is probably the obvious one -how then did Agincourt and Crecy happen?



bbmike

  • Warrant Officer
  • Lance Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 7444
    • My Own Worst Enemy
Reply #10 on: June 02, 2020, 02:59:37 PM

"My life is spent in one long effort to escape from the commonplace of existence."
-Sherlock Holmes

My Own Worst Enemy


Hethwill

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Jr Lancer
  • *
  • Posts: 262
    • Hethwill Wargames Youtube
Reply #11 on: August 14, 2020, 05:12:51 AM
'Warbow' from Mike Loades is a fantastic book to look into what we are sold and what was actually happening, with the bow as an instrument of war, in land and sea.

Same as his Sword book, it goes straight to the poignant points of the instrument abilities paired with the obstacles it faced, in this case the armour used by the opponents of all types, metal, fabrics, etc.

Also looks into the supplies subject. Because arrows are not infinite :D

Regarding Agincourt and the myths it was funny to hear him have a coffe table chat with Dan Snow
https://play.acast.com/s/dansnowshistoryhit/englishhistorysmostfamousbattle-agincourtwithmikeloades