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Author Topic: Longstreet Attacks  (Read 4970 times)

JudgeDredd

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Reply #15 on: March 16, 2024, 06:20:20 AM
So The Whirlpool is the battle for the Wheatfield, Devil's Den and Houck's Ridge. I don't know if that means anything to anyone, but I know too little about the ACW for that to resonate with me.

As BC said, the rules are somewhat confusing. I do remember when I got this game I kept the rule book out to learn it and decided to leave it and went on to a different game.

The rules do leave barn doors open for ambiguity. They use terms like Close Combat, Fire Combat, Defensive Fire, Normal Fire Attack...when I read the rules, it was not at all clear to me that when I performed a fire attack and then moved (an attack order), that you could also perform Close Combat. Additionally, it's wasn't clear to me that the temr "Normal Fire Attack" meant I could use Close Combat...because I was getting Normal Fire Attack confused with Normal Fire Combat. In part, it's because of ambiguous terms I think but a large part is I don't think the rule book fully represents the Sequence of Play and you need to check both in order to get a grip of the sequence of play.

I think there is alot to like in here. It reminds me of the behemoth Fields of Fire. Not a complicated game at all - but the rules make it look like Everest. Once you're in though, you're in.

As for your post bob, I don't know what the point of the scenario is - there's no blurb with it. All I do know is the Union has terrible leaders who cannot activate...leaving them stationary at best and at worst, neutered. I pulled Humphrey's and his only brigade on the board is Burling - and two of those regiments are in the Broken track! The one unit left couldn't move (because Humphrey's wasn't able to activate) and he couldn't shoot. Activation over. And that's not the only time. As I said, I've pulled 11 divisional chits for the Union over 2 turns and they haven't once had a full activation.

As I said - I don't care who wins. I have no side. But steam rollering over another side just isn't really fun.

Having said all that - there are Union reinforcements coming (as well as some Confederates) and also the possibility of the removal of some Confederate forces. 2 turns isn't really anything in a 10 turn game and looking at the reinforcement schedule it does look like there might be some to-ing and fro-ing. Of course there's only going to be some to-ing and fro-ing if the Union player actually gets some Union units to move.

So I'll stick with it for the time being.

On the map - initially I loved the look of the map. Then I hates it when I started to play. It initially appeared to be busy and complicated to read...but actually it's turned out fine. So you have a great looking map with some great features.

Additionally, this map provides me witrh something I've alsways wanted in games and it's not always there (or at least not always there to a decent degree) - the movement rates. In so many games movement rates are set so generic and with very little in the way of terrain to challenge it, you are able to move units wherever you want and with relative ease. With this map - you HAVE to use roads to get anywhere. most of the terrain (or at least the stuff I've been fighting on) is rocky, trees, hills, steep hills...and they all help to keep movement down unless you're using roads.

Anyway - I guess I just posted yesterday because I was frustrated with the lack of ability for the Union to act...we'll see how it goes.


I should also point out - I am a bit irked by two things...
1. The 2nd Edition was not released incoporating the errata
2. The 2nd Edition rules are not available on the website - it's the first edition rules

I could forgive 1 given the reasoning supplied by Revolution Games (time and small team), but two is not forgiveable. You have an updated set of rules for the 2nd edition - get them on your website.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2024, 06:40:43 AM by JudgeDredd »

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bob48

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Reply #16 on: March 16, 2024, 07:32:40 AM
I think we should also not overlook the historical fact that the Union was very much on the defensive.

“O Lord God, let me not be disgraced in my old days.”

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'


JudgeDredd

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Reply #17 on: March 16, 2024, 10:33:33 AM
I think that appeared to be the case because their officers were far less "active" than the Confederate officers - especially early war from what I remember from Ken Burns series.

I'm going to butt out talking about the history of it though - before one of our US compatriots come on here and tell me off though  ;D

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bob48

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Reply #18 on: March 16, 2024, 10:45:25 AM
I'm not sure if that is strictly true. We are talking about July 1863, so its hardly 'early war'. I think its more a case that whilst much of the Confederate force were seasoned veterans, a lot of the Union troops engaged at that point were comparatively inexperienced. To a degree, this also applies to leadership at all levels.


“O Lord God, let me not be disgraced in my old days.”

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'


JudgeDredd

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Reply #19 on: March 18, 2024, 05:02:31 AM
Well - I don't know what changed between Turn 2 and Turn 3 - maybe just the acceptance that the Union leaders are crap...but I've just started to get into this.

The rules have ambiguity riddled throughout. I think wargamers in general (but absolutely most certainly me) can't often extract the obvious from the ambiguous and it leaves us wondering. I certainly felt like that with the "perform a normal fire action" - I had no idea (because it didn't mention either under Fire Combat or Close Combat that these were both "normal fire actions") that that included Close Combat.

I need it spelled out.

Anyway - I'm very much enjoying it more now that I was the last two turns. I still can't get a union leader to activate (the only time I could was pulling the CiC Sickles chit)...but I've accepted that now and they're just sitting there plugging away at the approaching Confederates.

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bob48

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Reply #20 on: March 18, 2024, 07:15:50 AM
As I have said before, just ask if you need any clarification. I have played the system enough to be very comfortable with it and have thus worked out/ resolved any perceived ambiguities.

I mentioned before about the relative quality of the troops involved, and again, looking at the counter-mix on BGG I note that many of the Confederate regiments have a 4 or 5 cohesion rating as opposed to many Union regiments with a 3. This makes a significant difference in combat and the ability to withstand adverse results, plus a big advantage when it comes to an assault.

But again, be very clear - a Limited Activation only allows a formation to conduct a fire action, and nothing else.
Obviously, you have to take the best advantage that you can of the CiC chit when drawn, as it allows a formation to activate twice (I assume its the same in all games) and thus represents a force multiplier.

As for just standing and plugging away, well yes, that is pretty much what happened historically :-)

“O Lord God, let me not be disgraced in my old days.”

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'


JudgeDredd

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Reply #21 on: March 18, 2024, 08:06:57 AM
I will do - calm down la, calm down...  ;D

I was just explaining something has just clicked. I was actually just pulling chits last night rather than rolling my eyes at every one I pulled  :2funny:

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bob48

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Reply #22 on: March 18, 2024, 08:14:06 AM
 :bigthumb:

“O Lord God, let me not be disgraced in my old days.”

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'


besilarius

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Reply #23 on: March 18, 2024, 09:01:27 AM
The conversation reminded me of something from the dim days.
Back around 1963, the ACW's centennial, there was a great fuss about Berdant sharp shooters badly damaging two leading regiments of Longstreets advancing force.  Two Alabama regiments I think.
Does Berdan's First USSS have a role in the game?
Could they delay or disorganize a brigade of the Rebs?

"These things must be done delicately-- or you hurt the spell."  - The Wicked Witch of the West.
"We've got the torpedo damage temporarily shored up, the fires out and soon will have the ship back on an even keel. But I would suggest, sir, that if you have to take any more torpedoes, you take 'em on the starboard side."   Pops Healy, DCA USS Lexington.


bob48

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Reply #24 on: March 18, 2024, 09:32:10 AM
I think that both 1st and 2nd regiments are represented in the game.

“O Lord God, let me not be disgraced in my old days.”

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'


JudgeDredd

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Reply #25 on: March 20, 2024, 07:53:06 AM
Ok hot shot - I got another question  :2funny:

If I've got a unit that gets a D result and flipped to it's battle worn side. Lets say that unit now has a 1SP and 1CR value, but it also take 2 morale hits...that takes it's SP to -1 and it's CR to -1...is that how it's left, or does it have to take a break test?

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bob48

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Reply #26 on: March 20, 2024, 08:51:20 AM
Check rules 12.1 and 12.6

See also rule 2.0. That tell us that a units SP's and CR can never be below 0.

Does that help?  ;)

“O Lord God, let me not be disgraced in my old days.”

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'


JudgeDredd

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Reply #27 on: March 20, 2024, 01:10:33 PM
No - not really I'm afraid - and I don't have 12.6 in my manual.

ok - they can't go below 0 - but I was wondering what you did with the other morale hit? Was it just dumped or did you have to perform a break test?

Additionally, you could end up with a broken unit with 2SP and 1 CR suffering 2 morale hits. Obviously giving the second morale hit would result in 0SPs (fine)...but the CR would be left as -1...do you continue with the other morale hit and treat the CR of -1 as a 0? Or is it dumped (because it takes a value to below 0) - and a break test is done?

Point is, you could end up with a unit with a disrupted marker that takes a unit's CR value to -1 - so if I'm to listen to rule 2, (rule 4 in my manual), I can't be issuing a second morale hit if it takes my unit's CR to -1?

I think I'll just not issue the second morale hit if it takes a unit's CR (or SP if that's possible) below 0.


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bob48

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Reply #28 on: March 20, 2024, 02:44:33 PM
I'm confused. I'm looking at my series rules, and there is definitely a rule 12.6 (Break Test). Also, what version rules do you have? I use the v1.1 rules which, if your game does not come with that version, you can download from Revolution.

If you follow rule 12.5 (Morale Hits) it explains the various effects from hits.

edit - I have just checked the base rules (v1.0) that were included with my games, and they definitely have rule 12.6.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2024, 03:24:46 PM by bob48 »

“O Lord God, let me not be disgraced in my old days.”

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'


JudgeDredd

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Reply #29 on: March 20, 2024, 03:49:13 PM
My rules say Second Edition. They have a date of 2021.

My break test rule is 15.7...15.0 being the Cohesion Tests

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