Armchair Dragoons Forums

News:

  • Connections Online 2024 will be held 15-20 April, 2024 ~~ More Info here
  • Buckeye Game Fest will be held May 2-5, 2024, with The War Room opening on 29 April ~~ More Info here

News

Connections Online 2024 will be held 15-20 April, 2024 ~~ More Info here

Author Topic: best rule set to use of a naval game around 1870-1890?  (Read 6644 times)

JohnPJones1775

  • Jr. Trooper
  • *
  • Posts: 68
on: January 27, 2021, 02:10:32 AM
just curious if there are any good rulesets specifically for this time period or if i'd be stuck with ACW, adapting ACW, or making my own.



ojsdad

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 2698
Reply #1 on: January 27, 2021, 09:36:37 PM
I don't know if they're good, buy you may want to check this out

http://www.avalanchepress.com/gameRememberMaine.php

Here at ACD, we all pee the same color.


ojsdad

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 2698
Reply #2 on: January 27, 2021, 09:39:00 PM

Here at ACD, we all pee the same color.


mcguire

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 1101
  • Shoes for industry!
Reply #3 on: January 28, 2021, 03:55:09 PM
just curious if there are any good rulesets specifically for this time period or if i'd be stuck with ACW, adapting ACW, or making my own.
I don't have any particular suggestions, but I'd think ACW rules would not be a good place to start. The problem here is that this is squarely in between two better known periods, ACW and pre-Dreadnaughts (for which I note my spell checker suggests pee-Dreadnaughts) and not really very much like either. The battles of the ACW were either late Age o' Sail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cherbourg_(1864)), riverine, or attacks on ports. Then there are a bunch of rules to replay the Battle of Tsushima.

1870-90 would be squarely sail and steam ironclads (War of the Pacific https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_campaign_of_the_War_of_the_Pacific, Sino-French War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fuzhou). You might take a particular look for the Battle of Lissa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lissa_(1866)).

For the latter, There Must Be A Victory from Against the Odds (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/37142/there-must-be-victory) sounds interesting. Then there's Dahlgren and Columbiad (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/297548/dahlgren-and-columbiad) and Broadside and Ram (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/298100/broadside-and-ram), but I'm not sure how I feel about Long Face Games---I have looked at some of the galley games and they seemed a little generic, although I haven't looked very closely.

You might also check out Phil Dunn's Sea Battle Games edited by John Curry, from the History of Wargaming Project. It has some simple rules, but the book overall was pretty good.  :pirate:

"Man...knowing how to use the cards properly certainly changes how I play the game" -- judgedredd


JohnPJones1775

  • Jr. Trooper
  • *
  • Posts: 68
Reply #4 on: January 31, 2021, 12:11:42 AM
thanks unfortunately the one that seems to work for me the best doesn't have any options after you click buy lol, guess i have to do a bit more homework



JohnPJones1775

  • Jr. Trooper
  • *
  • Posts: 68
Reply #5 on: January 31, 2021, 11:35:28 AM
just curious if there are any good rulesets specifically for this time period or if i'd be stuck with ACW, adapting ACW, or making my own.
I don't have any particular suggestions, but I'd think ACW rules would not be a good place to start. The problem here is that this is squarely in between two better known periods, ACW and pre-Dreadnaughts (for which I note my spell checker suggests pee-Dreadnaughts) and not really very much like either. The battles of the ACW were either late Age o' Sail (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cherbourg_(1864)), riverine, or attacks on ports. Then there are a bunch of rules to replay the Battle of Tsushima.

1870-90 would be squarely sail and steam ironclads (War of the Pacific https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_campaign_of_the_War_of_the_Pacific, Sino-French War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fuzhou). You might take a particular look for the Battle of Lissa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lissa_(1866)).

For the latter, There Must Be A Victory from Against the Odds (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/37142/there-must-be-victory) sounds interesting. Then there's Dahlgren and Columbiad (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/297548/dahlgren-and-columbiad) and Broadside and Ram (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/298100/broadside-and-ram), but I'm not sure how I feel about Long Face Games---I have looked at some of the galley games and they seemed a little generic, although I haven't looked very closely.

You might also check out Phil Dunn's Sea Battle Games edited by John Curry, from the History of Wargaming Project. It has some simple rules, but the book overall was pretty good.  :pirate:

i downloaded dalhgren and columiad, but the movement rules don't seem to actually exist...they have example profiles for ships with set movements, but no rules about movement itself aside from turning pretty much. have you played and do you have any insight?



mcguire

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 1101
  • Shoes for industry!
Reply #6 on: February 01, 2021, 05:05:52 PM
i downloaded dalhgren and columiad, but the movement rules don't seem to actually exist...they have example profiles for ships with set movements, but no rules about movement itself aside from turning pretty much. have you played and do you have any insight?

I haven't actualy played Dahlgren and Columbiad and in fact just got a copy myself.

"Vessels can move up to their full movement distance as shown on the ship table. Ships must move at least 1”,
and ships moving under sail at least half their maximum move distance, unless hove to or at anchor. Vessels may make up to two course changes during movement, depending on their Manoeuvre Class"

Yeah, that's lovely. And sailing:

"Vessels moving under sail may not move on courses that take them closer
to the wind than 60 degrees, as indicated on the Sailing Template. Vessels
moving under sail may tack across the wind. In order to do this the vessel
uses either its first or second turn to point its head directly into the wind.
At this point all movement and turning for that vessel stops. In its next
movement phase a d6 is rolled, adding 1 if the ship is Damaged. If the
result is 5 or less the vessel tacks, and is turned across the wind so that it
is pointing as close to the wind as possible (this uses up its first course
change), after which it may move away as normal. If the result is 6 or more
the vessel goes into irons and remains immobile for the remainder of the
phase – it may make another attempt at the start of the subsequent
movement phase."

Very simplified. I guess ships go straight forward at least 1" and up to their movement allowance in inches, with possible turns at mid-move and at the end-of-move. Doesn't look like there's much nuance to it.


"Man...knowing how to use the cards properly certainly changes how I play the game" -- judgedredd


JohnPJones1775

  • Jr. Trooper
  • *
  • Posts: 68
Reply #7 on: February 02, 2021, 03:43:31 PM
i downloaded dalhgren and columiad, but the movement rules don't seem to actually exist...they have example profiles for ships with set movements, but no rules about movement itself aside from turning pretty much. have you played and do you have any insight?

I haven't actualy played Dahlgren and Columbiad and in fact just got a copy myself.

"Vessels can move up to their full movement distance as shown on the ship table. Ships must move at least 1”,
and ships moving under sail at least half their maximum move distance, unless hove to or at anchor. Vessels may make up to two course changes during movement, depending on their Manoeuvre Class"

Yeah, that's lovely. And sailing:

"Vessels moving under sail may not move on courses that take them closer
to the wind than 60 degrees, as indicated on the Sailing Template. Vessels
moving under sail may tack across the wind. In order to do this the vessel
uses either its first or second turn to point its head directly into the wind.
At this point all movement and turning for that vessel stops. In its next
movement phase a d6 is rolled, adding 1 if the ship is Damaged. If the
result is 5 or less the vessel tacks, and is turned across the wind so that it
is pointing as close to the wind as possible (this uses up its first course
change), after which it may move away as normal. If the result is 6 or more
the vessel goes into irons and remains immobile for the remainder of the
phase – it may make another attempt at the start of the subsequent
movement phase."

Very simplified. I guess ships go straight forward at least 1" and up to their movement allowance in inches, with possible turns at mid-move and at the end-of-move. Doesn't look like there's much nuance to it.
the ruleset is for my preferred time period but not quite as streamlined as i'd have hoped...resolving shooting seems unnecessarily complicated :/



PeterRobbins

  • Jr. Trooper
  • *
  • Posts: 85
Reply #8 on: February 13, 2021, 09:21:04 AM
Depending upon the ships involved (more ironclad or moving more into pre-dred as you are on the fence for either depending upon how new the ships involved are) I would recommend either Iron and Fire, or You May Fire When Ready Mr. Gridley respectively, both by David Manley (who authored Dahlgren and Columbiad, as mentioned further above). There is also Dawn Of The Battleship by the Admiralty Trilogy Group, but that leans more towards pre-dred as opposed to ironclad.

So, if you are primarily ironclad ships, either Iron & Fire or Dahlgren and Columbiad, both by David Manley. I've not seen a full review of D&C and have not played them. If you want to see a playthrough of Iron & Fire, I recently did one over here -
not to sway you (or hopefully not scare you off) one way or another.

Everything I mention is available on wargame vault website. IF you want to walk through either of those rule sets by way of Discord desk top sharing, I would be more than happy to show you the rules for each in real-time for 10-20 minutes of time.

« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 10:07:27 AM by PeterRobbins »



mcguire

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 1101
  • Shoes for industry!
Reply #9 on: February 13, 2021, 09:19:14 PM
Cool! Thanks!

"Man...knowing how to use the cards properly certainly changes how I play the game" -- judgedredd


JohnPJones1775

  • Jr. Trooper
  • *
  • Posts: 68
Reply #10 on: February 24, 2021, 09:02:00 PM
Depending upon the ships involved (more ironclad or moving more into pre-dred as you are on the fence for either depending upon how new the ships involved are) I would recommend either Iron and Fire, or You May Fire When Ready Mr. Gridley respectively, both by David Manley (who authored Dahlgren and Columbiad, as mentioned further above). There is also Dawn Of The Battleship by the Admiralty Trilogy Group, but that leans more towards pre-dred as opposed to ironclad.

So, if you are primarily ironclad ships, either Iron & Fire or Dahlgren and Columbiad, both by David Manley. I've not seen a full review of D&C and have not played them. If you want to see a playthrough of Iron & Fire, I recently did one over here -
not to sway you (or hopefully not scare you off) one way or another.

Everything I mention is available on wargame vault website. IF you want to walk through either of those rule sets by way of Discord desk top sharing, I would be more than happy to show you the rules for each in real-time for 10-20 minutes of time.
alt history, so i'm thinking a mix of both, but i'm also looking at a 15mm scale and just ordering from virtualarmchairgeneral.com and their send a gun boat section right now.

so i'm hoping they come out with their newer weapons in 15mm soon, though as they have it set up now, the iron and fire rules would probably work best.