Armchair Dragoons Forums
Wargaming => The Modern World => Topic started by: bob48 on April 06, 2022, 04:22:08 PM
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Designed by Mark Simonitch, there are now quite a few titles in the series with several re-prints plus some mounted maps.
All the games use a common core system, and are generally of the battalion / regimental scale. The map designs and counters graphics are, I think, very well done, with tthe map for 'Normandy '44' being a favourite of mine.
The list so far is as follows (correct me if I'm wrong) and in no particular order;
Normandy '44
Ardennes '44
France '40
Holland '44
Salerno '43
Stalingrad '42
Stalingrad Expansion
Ukraine '43
North Africa '41 which is a new addition and one that I will be keeping an eye on.
I can't admit to playing all of them, but the ones I have played I have found to be great games and very enjoyable, Normandy '44 being top my my list.
I'm sure many of you have some of these, so lets hear your thoughts.
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I have Stalingrad '42 and Holland '44 both, but haven't played either, yet. Stalingrad is just too big for my current table, and Holland '44, I've not gotten to yet. :(
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I have played 'Holland '44' and that is a good game, with the additional benefit that, like 'Normandy '44', its a one mapper!
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I've heard nothing but good things about them, but never played one. Maybe I'll try to chisel out some time this summer
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I do have The Dark Summer on the way. I haven't quite gotten around to Normandy '44 yet. With TDS and France 1944 already on my shelf, I'll need to see how these others play first.
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I have Holland 44 and actually played it. Good game and not too difficult to get into. Map and counters are nice a readable too.
I really should get a copy of Normandy 44 as that’s probably my favourite battle to game.
France 40 looks interesting too.
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I have and have played Holland 44 and Ardennes 44. (Both only played solo) And I now have Salerno '43 which I hope to get to the table soon.
I've really enjoy the process of learning and playing these games. I think the rule books are well laid out with great examples of play. And the rules themselves are fairly straightforward especially since you are just following a sequence of play. Beyond the special scenario/game specific rules once you are comfortable with it I've found I can play the game using just the player aid. The fun has really been in the decision making and how far and fast to push attacks on offense or how much ground to give on defense.
I'm a big fan of the map art and the counters are easy to read and I appreciate the little details that remind you in a specific unit has a special rule associated to it. I think my next purchase in the series will probably be Normandy 44.
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I have Normandy '44, Holland '44, Salerno '43, Ardennes '44 and France '40.
The only one I've played was Holland '44 and believe it or not, I think I got half a turn in or something (just the Allied phase) before I had to pack it up and that half turn was enough for me to be a fan of the series.
I concur with everything thecommandtent said.
Ardennes '44 for me had the addition of the very exciting element of Aireborne forces behind enemy lines holding on. Any game that has that - computer or board - has my full attention...so I'm sceptical whether I'm going to fall into the other games as easily (Normandy excepted as it has a similar mechanic).
I would've loved Stalingrad but the map is too big and I did look Ukraine '43 it once and couldn't find it.
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I do remember one thing I didn't like about the game....the fractions for movement on roads. Even in my brief play, I found it awkward at times. But it was a small pain.
Also - I must've played more than 1/2 a turn because I remember moving up Hell's Highway and also the Germans deploying the traffic queue counters.
Excellent game - regardless of what I felt about the road movement calculations
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so it's known as a "ZOC-bond" system.... who wants to take a sec and explain that schtick to everyone? :)
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Rules section 7.
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/gmtwebsiteassets/Holland44/HO44-LIVINGRULES-May2018.pdf
Can't explain it any better'n that ;D
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To me, the 194X games are pretty straightforward, old-school games with just the right amount of chrome to match each game's setting.
Other than the ZOC-bond and armor rules, these games are throwbacks to old AH or SPI games with IGO-UGO move-attack sequence of play. Combat is fairly simple on a basic CRT.
The ZOC-bond rules allow low-unit-density areas to still form a solid frontline of forces. The armor rules give a one-column shift to an attacker with armor, but only if the armor is rated "better" than the defender's armor (using a superscript on the attack value to identify the armor rating).
While I love many of the new and innovative wargame designs, this series allows an experienced wargamer to dive right into just about any game in the series. These games are familiar and comfortable--and do a very good job at capturing the many different campaigns they represent.
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I don't recall finding the ZOC Bond rule a problem...but actually I do recall what counted as vehicles, mechanised and armour etc a tad confusing
I constantly had to check the table.
Well thanks for this Bob...it's made my mind up what game is going to my table next. It was between Holland 44 and Fields of Fire
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:bigthumb:
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I don't recall finding the ZOC Bond rule a problem...but actually I do recall what counted as vehicles, mechanised and armour etc a tad confusing
Agreed they can be a bit confusing especially when making sure I don't stack to many in a hex, but its a minor quibble.
Also, I forgot to mention that I have the Holland '44 Northern Scenario expansion that was in C3i magazine #32 that just uses the Northern Map. I haven't played it yet but it looks interesting and has a very small footprint given you only use the smaller of the two maps. Plus it focuses on the 82nd and 1st Airborne landings and holding until 30 Corps appears on the map. JD I think you would like that scenario.
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Thanks for the heads up.
All my quibbles about this game system are very definitely minor. It's a very enjoyable system.
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Thanks for the heads up.
All my quibbles about this game system are very definitely minor. It's a very enjoyable system.
The airborne landings in Holland '44 are some of my favorite wargaming moments. I find it alot of fun trying to organize the chaos after the somewhat random airdrop results.
Speaking of my minor quibbles, I've got one that I think this series brought out in my mind but is probably true for me in the hobby in general. And this might sound stupid to some of y'all but I have the hardest with unit organizational ID and its nomenclature. Say I want to do a quick post or AAR with a picture of the game. If it is not stupidly obvious or mentioned specifically in the rules I have a hard time "saying" the unit organizational ID correctly. I can read the Nato symbols or silhouettes just fine and tell if its a regiment, brigade, division etc. but for some reason I feel like I can't get the whole run down worded correctly. Not sure if its that I dont get enough practice doing it or dont have a military back ground but for some reason it always seems to frustrate me.
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I feel like I can't get the whole run down worded correctly. Not sure if its that I dont get enough practice doing it or dont have a military back ground but for some reason it always seems to frustrate me.
It's not that difficult once you get the hang of it, but like anything else, until it's explained to you, it's a little opaque.
The other headache is that while there are some general conventions, every country has their own twist on it
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It doesn't help that the yanks - like they did with dates - put it arse about face :censored:
:hug:
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It doesn't help that the yanks - like they did with dates - put it arse about face :censored:
QFT!
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I'd love to see them do a continuation of Normandy '44. I've played to the end several times and always feel disappointed because I can't keep going :-)
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Thanks to bob :hug:
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Looks great but when are you going to finish the P-47? :bigthumb:
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...as soon as he needs to call in some Tac Air Support..............
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Ha. My war gaming table had been emptied so I could concentrate on modelling. I finished and sold my A-10 (which had been on the table for well over a year) and I decided I was enjoying it so I started the P-47
Unfortunately talk of this game got me thinking about it so I couldn't resist. I was planning on completing the P-47 by Sunday but it'll be next Sunday now I imagine
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I played Normandy '44 7-8 times with a friend and picked up Holland '44 which I played 5-6 times with different people. I tried Ukraine '43 once and started a game of Ardennes '44 but we didn't get too far into it before a vomiting kid put an early end to my offensive.
I ended up selling my copy of Holland '44. The game was decent but I felt like we'd really explored what it had to offer after the 4th play session. Much like Normandy '44, it started to feel a bit too samey and that we were just repeating the same exercise over again and just hoping for different dice results rather than exploring new tactics. I guess that's the drawback of games that focus on recreating a historical event when compared to games that are scenario based. There just isn't the same variety as one can find with a LnL title.
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Ha. My war gaming table had been emptied so I could concentrate on modelling. I finished and sold my A-10 (which had been on the table for well over a year) and I decided I was enjoying it so I started the P-47
Unfortunately talk of this game got me thinking about it so I couldn't resist. I was planning on completing the P-47 by Sunday but it'll be next Sunday now I imagine
Pix, please, kind sir!
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Of? The A10? It's gone
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Sorry, no. The P-47 when complete. :notworthy:
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aye...will do. In the modelling section
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I did not mean to derail the thread. Thanks, JD.
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Designed by Mark Simonitch, there are now quite a few titles in the series with several re-prints plus some mounted maps.
All the games use a common core system, and are generally of the battalion / regimental scale. The map designs and counters graphics are, I think, very well done, with tthe map for 'Normandy '44' being a favourite of mine.
The list so far is as follows (correct me if I'm wrong) and in no particular order;
Normandy '44
Ardennes '44
France '40
Holland '44
Salerno '43
Stalingrad '42
Stalingrad Expansion
Ukraine '43
North Africa '41 which is a new addition and one that I will be keeping an eye on.
I can't admit to playing all of them, but the ones I have played I have found to be great games and very enjoyable, Normandy '44 being top my my list.
I'm sure many of you have some of these, so lets hear your thoughts.
So, having never played any of these, if you could choose just one which one would it be? Alternately, if I were going to buy just one, which do you recommend? Does it just depend on which battle I prefer?
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A lot depends on where your historical interest lies, but to me, it would be a hard choice between Normandy and Ardennes.
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I've only played a few of the titles but, of the ones I've played, I'd go with Normandy. Holland' 44 and Ardennes '44 do a great job of conveying just how frustrating it is to get bogged down. Personally, I don't get a lot of enjoyment from experiencing this phenomenon over and over again in a game. In Normandy, the Canadians and a majority of the British units will get stuck in a grinding attrition fight around Caen but the Americans and Germans have lots of room to maneuver around other parts of the map. You don't get that same freedom in Ardennes or Holland....damned bridges...always going boom just as my tanks roll up.....
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Thanks, guys! If I pull the trigger it will be Normandy. :bigthumb:
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I've only played Holland and Ardennes and while I enjoyed them both they almost seemed to scratch different itches. Holland was fun trying to hold out with the airborne troops while racing to relieve them. While I felt there was enough room for maneuver in Ardennes especially as the Germans achieve breakouts and then how to mount your counter attacks or form choke points as the Allies. So I think as stated above alot depends on which battle your interest most lies with if you can only get one.
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Thanks, guys! If I pull the trigger it will be Normandy. :bigthumb:
Good choice, Mike. I haven't played it, but I could be tempted by France '40 :-)
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...and the more I look at the forth-coming 'North Africa '41' the more I'm starting to lust after it!
I started board wargaming in the late 1960's with a copy of Avalon Hills 'Afrika Korps' and the campaign has always held a fascination for me. Plus my dad served with 8th Army :-)