Rule the House!

[bob48]

In general terms, I'm not much given to using house rules, unless its something so glaringly obviously wrong, or something a you see a lot of other players advocating, or even, on odd occasions, something condoned by the game designer, maybe possibly triggering an official errata.

Having said that.............................

I'm quite a big fan of the OST games (I may have even mention that elsewhere......) the rules of which flow along very nicely without any notable issues, but, there are a couple of small points that irk me enough to consider introducing house rules.

The first one is about turreted vehicles which are able to fire at targets outside of the vehicles front arc without any penalty. I find this a bit on the generous side, so my 'fix' for this is that when firing at a 'hard' target, the 'to hit' roll has a -1 DRM, and, if the target is of the 'soft' variety, then the HE firepower is reduced by 1.
Nothing too controversial about that, I think.

Second one. Well, I've always found it annoying that any squad level game that has separate LMG that you have to assign to squads (and there are never enough to go around) seems to ignore the fact that just about all infantry squads, regardless of who's army it is, included a LMG as part of its normal equipment.

But anyway, apart from that, I find it odd that a squad (in this game) is allowed to carry only one support weapon, which, for the Germans, means ether an LMG or a Panzerfaust. So, this a bunch of usually around10 men, who should include a 2 man LMG team anyway, but can't also carry a Panzerfaust?
Not only that, but even then they can manage to carry 1 Panzerfaust? Use it and its gone! This is despite the fact that you can find lots of photo's of 'em carrying multiple weapons.

OK, I know its all about 'playability' but even so, I find it makes no sense when rules obviously do not (as far as any game can) attempt to replicate 'realism'.

My answer to this one? Allow a squad to carry 2 different support weapons, or ,more specifically in this case, an LMG and a Panzerfaust. Furthermore, a Panzerfaust is only expended if, when making a 'to hit' roll, you get a 'double'.

And there you have it. As ever, this is just my take on it, and thus is very subjective.

[Barthheart]

Hey Bob, guess what I'm gonna say! 

The -1 for firing out of arc for turreted vehicles makes some sense. Although in the time scale of a turn it's probably not required.

The LMG thing again. The extra LMG that the counter represents add on fire power from higher up the command structure, say from company level. The squad counters are assumed to have an LMG already imbedded in them.
As for the panzerfaust, yeah they should be able to carry that also, I agree. For it running out it would depend on the year a bit and where the battle was but yes some kind of depletion effect would be good. Rolling doubles might be to generous, but I don't have a better idea offhand.

[bob48]

lol Vance, I thought you may jump in, and i know that we have had similar discussions before.

However, where I really disagree about the LMG issue is based on the fact that a squad with an LMG attached can fire it out to the max range of the squad + the FP of the squad itself, or the squad can just fire the LMG if beyond the range of the squad itself < pause for breath>. Therefore, if, as you say, the intrinsic LMG of the squad is 'built-in' then the squad counter should be able to fire out to the max LMG range at reduced firepower without this 'extra' LMG.

Therefore, 'Yah Boo'. I rest my case :-)

[BanzaiCat]

One should always feel good with making up their own rules for a game, or changing rules. If it enhances your enjoyment of it, then by all means, do so. 

It always felt weird for me to do it, like I was breaking some sacrosanct bond or something, but now not so much, heh.

[bob48]

.you despicable reprobate 

Yes, apart from OST...........I really was interested in getting peoples views about how they feel about house rules in general. I think what you have said, BC, will likely represent how the majority of players deal with the subject.

[bayonetbrant]

I don't like slapping house rules on things until I've played the game enough to really get into a lot of the details of the rules and see what the designer was after

One other major reason I don't like house-ruling things is more personal: once I start tinkering, I won't stop, and then I'm just designing an entirely new, parallel game instead of playing the one I bought.

[Barthheart]

lol Vance, I thought you may jump in, and i know that we have had similar discussions before.

However, where I really disagree about the LMG issue is based on the fact that a squad with an LMG attached can fire it out to the max range of the squad + the FP of the squad itself, or the squad can just fire the LMG if beyond the range of the squad itself < pause for breath>. Therefore, if, as you say, the intrinsic LMG of the squad is 'built-in' then the squad counter should be able to fire out to the max LMG range at reduced firepower without this 'extra' LMG.

Therefore, 'Yah Boo'. I rest my case :-)

Bob, yer wrong. 
The range on the squad counter is the effective range of the squad with all weapons combined, including the intrinsic LMG. Firing just the add-on LMG you can fire further because it’s not including all the shorter effective ranged weapons… and you fire at lesser FP.

I totally agree with BC on the overall house rule thing. I never did it as a younger gamer because I thought, rightfully so, that all the designers knew more than I did so what right did have to go changing things and the game.

Now I’m way more relaxed about tinkering with rules, but like Brant I usually wait until I’ve played the game a bunch first.

[bob48]

eh?

Vance, a squad, if it has a built in LMG, should be able to fire the LMG without the shorter range weapons of the squad, but at a reduced firepower.

Just look at the capabilities of a squad (a) with no attached LMG, and (b) a squad with an attached LMG. The rules allow for a squad to fire an attached LMG(only) at the LMG range, which is greater than the range of the squad.

Therefore, if, as you say, the squad also includes its own LMG, why does that LMG not have the same capability as the attached LMG? Its not logical, since its basically the same weapon.

[Undercovergeek]

Aaaaaand we’re off 

[JudgeDredd]

I've thought about house rules before.

Unfortunately I have a tough enough time playing with the rules as is, never mind trying to remember my house rules

Ultimately, though, we all pay our money to buy the game. It's our game after that. Fill yer boots

[bob48]

 

[Barthheart]

eh?

Vance, a squad, if it has a built in LMG, should be able to fire the LMG without the shorter range weapons of the squad, but at a reduced firepower.

Just look at the capabilities of a squad (a) with no attached LMG, and (b) a squad with an attached LMG. The rules allow for a squad to fire an attached LMG(only) at the LMG range, which is greater than the range of the squad.

Therefore, if, as you say, the squad also includes its own LMG, why does that LMG not have the same capability as the attached LMG? Its not logical, since its basically the same weapon.

Well then just remove LMGs from the game and only allow MMG/HMGs to be added to squads.

[thecommandtent]

I've thought about house rules before.

Unfortunately I have a tough enough time playing with the rules as is, never mind trying to remember my house rules

This is me.

Also, rarely am I getting to play a game enough times to really see a need for a house rule.

[bob48]

eh?

Vance, a squad, if it has a built in LMG, should be able to fire the LMG without the shorter range weapons of the squad, but at a reduced firepower.

Just look at the capabilities of a squad (a) with no attached LMG, and (b) a squad with an attached LMG. The rules allow for a squad to fire an attached LMG(only) at the LMG range, which is greater than the range of the squad.

Therefore, if, as you say, the squad also includes its own LMG, why does that LMG not have the same capability as the attached LMG? Its not logical, since its basically the same weapon.

Well then just remove LMGs from the game and only allow MMG/HMGs to be added to squads.

Or, just agree to disagree.

[Barthheart]

eh?

Vance, a squad, if it has a built in LMG, should be able to fire the LMG without the shorter range weapons of the squad, but at a reduced firepower.

Just look at the capabilities of a squad (a) with no attached LMG, and (b) a squad with an attached LMG. The rules allow for a squad to fire an attached LMG(only) at the LMG range, which is greater than the range of the squad.

Therefore, if, as you say, the squad also includes its own LMG, why does that LMG not have the same capability as the attached LMG? Its not logical, since its basically the same weapon.

Well then just remove LMGs from the game and only allow MMG/HMGs to be added to squads.

Or, just agree to disagree.