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Author Topic: Holland '44 and the woes of board gaming space  (Read 29298 times)

tuna

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Reply #45 on: September 29, 2019, 10:28:51 AM
Reading this one made me go "huh" too. But I think Mirth's response explains it and it is how I sort of thought they would explain it.

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Wargaming. Arguing over little things like this is the very air we breathe.

LOL, but it really was a "Huh" moment for me reading the rules! I thought, "Is this a mistake/typo"?

I am still guilty of not opening yet. I was thinking yesterday of getting an acrylic sheet to cover the map yesterday. My smaller folding table is big enough for Holland, but then I was thinking what if I got Ardennes? I'd need to go with a bigger table/sheet.. Too many decisions!!!

Do I need tweezers!!!?  I'm sure my 'modeling' Tweezer don't spread far enough!.. Does my wife have something that will 'clip' my counters the way that Barth would approve in her scrap-booking tools?

So many questions!!!

Oh, and what are people's thoughts on that Panzer or MBT game, is it a good one?



trailrunner

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Reply #46 on: September 29, 2019, 10:32:48 AM
Reading this one made me go "huh" too. But I think Mirth's response explains it and it is how I sort of thought they would explain it.

Welcome to the Wonderful World of Wargaming. Arguing over little things like this is the very air we breathe.

Next up: IFT vs IIFT in ASL.

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mirth

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Reply #47 on: September 29, 2019, 10:41:20 AM
Do I need tweezers!!!?
Yes. Try to find ones with rounded or coated ends so you don't scratch the counters.

Quote
Oh, and what are people's thoughts on that Panzer or MBT game, is it a good one?

It's a very good family of games, but the rules are fairly detailed. You may not want to move into them as a next step.

Being able to Google shit better than your clients is a legit career skill.


mirth

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Reply #48 on: September 29, 2019, 11:17:16 AM
I picked up these from Amazon





Came with a light between the arms. Couldn't get the light to work. Company sent a replacement set and the light didn't work on that one either. So now I have two sets of pretty nice tweezers for the price of one.

Being able to Google shit better than your clients is a legit career skill.


Staggerwing

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Reply #49 on: September 29, 2019, 11:21:36 AM
^ Those are like the ones we used to use at work to fish contact lenses out of the little glass vials in the days before blister packs.

Vituð ér enn - eða hvat?  -Voluspa


judgedredd

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Reply #50 on: September 29, 2019, 01:07:56 PM
In the video I linked to earlier, the guy was using tweezers (or another video I watched) and he was having a mate with them.

The hexes in the game are big enough and the counters are small enough to make it fine to work with... Even with my big sausage fingers

And Mirth,. I accept your suggestion fine.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 01:10:54 PM by judgedredd »



BanzaiCat

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Reply #51 on: September 29, 2019, 01:51:05 PM
I have those same tweezers, mirth. The light never was an issue for me so yeah sounds like you got a bum version.

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Barthheart

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Reply #52 on: September 29, 2019, 02:09:16 PM
Never used tweezers for years upon years. Then I got a pair for some game or other because there were lots of counters.
Still don't use tweezers. Not coordinated enough to pick up counters and not have them twist in the tweezers, go flying, and knock more pieces on the board flying than if I had just used my fingers.  :P

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mirth

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Reply #53 on: September 29, 2019, 02:38:55 PM
Why am I not surprised that the engineer can't use tweezers?

Being able to Google shit better than your clients is a legit career skill.


tuna

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Reply #54 on: September 29, 2019, 02:48:57 PM
Try chopsticks maybe?



Staggerwing

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Reply #55 on: September 29, 2019, 02:57:07 PM
Never used tweezers for years upon years. Then I got a pair for some game or other because there were lots of counters.
Still don't use tweezers. Not coordinated enough to pick up counters and not have them twist in the tweezers, go flying, and knock more pieces on the board flying than if I had just used my fingers.  :P

Slip a short piece of very soft silicone or neoprene tubing over the end of each tip, if the tweezers don't already have that. it'll give you extra anti-slip so the counters don't twist around. Leave the ends just a tiny bit past the ends of the tweezers tips.

Vituð ér enn - eða hvat?  -Voluspa


bob48

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Reply #56 on: September 29, 2019, 02:59:02 PM
 :bigthumb: Thanks Stagger - good tip!.........um...no pun intended.............

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judgedredd

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Reply #57 on: September 29, 2019, 05:12:44 PM
Another rule check please....

Under Combat Modifiers and section 10.2.3 Attachments it says
(10.2.3) Attachments: Any one unit from a different Formation may
be attached to the Lead Formation and participate in the attack at full
strength. To be attached the unit must be STACKED with a unit from
the Lead Formation (exception: 10.2.4).


The example shown is this


The example then goes on to say
EXAMPLE: The Guards Armoured Division is the Lead Formation
with a battalion of the 101st (hex B) as the one allowed attachment.
The other two 101st units attack at half strength. The odds are 29 to 10
with a shift for Armor = 3-1.


Now as far as I can tell, where the example says the odds are 29-10, it's actually taking full attack values for ALL attacking units.

The attacking units are A, B and C. The Guards unit is the  lead formation and so contributes 8 (2x4) to the attack. Then one attachment from another formation can provide it's full attack which is either B or C.

If it's B, then I see the attack odds as (A-4) + (B-5+4)+(C-4+4) = 21
If it's C then I see the attack odds as  (A-4) + (B-3+4)+(C-8+4) = 23

The only way I get 29 is by keeping ALL units with their full attack strength (A-8)+(B-5+4)+(C-8+4) = 29

Is this an error in the calculation or have I got not got to grips with the Lead Formations, Attachments and attack odds?



bob48

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Reply #58 on: September 29, 2019, 05:18:58 PM
The 3 units from Guards = 21, plus 1 unit from 101st adds four to make it 25. The other 2 units from 101st will be counted at half strength, adding another 2 each for a total of 29.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 05:58:57 AM by bob48 »

“O Lord God, let me not be disgraced in my old days.”

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tuna

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Reply #59 on: September 29, 2019, 06:20:51 PM
So 'one' unit outside the formation counts as full and all others halved?