WW2 alternate starts?

[bayonetbrant]

Listening to TPA's wrapup from BGF where they were talking about Unconditional Surrender and it made me wonder about something in ETO WW2 games


How many different games give you a reasonable option to kick off the ETO with something other than the German invasion of Poland?


While a lot of them might theoretically give you the freedom to do something different, they'll still often start with the Germans stacked along the Polish border, even if there's not an explicit "grab Warsaw and then figure it out"

What are some games that give you some alternate opening gambits beyond "Germans attack Poles"?

France pre-emptively attacks Germany?  Soviets make a grab for all of Poland themselves?  Italy gets pre-emptively frisky in the Balkans?  Germany grabs Denmark first to bottle up the Baltic?  England starts bombing Switzerland just b/c they're bored?  Germans attack Poland but the French take advantage of the distraction and make a grab to the Rhine?


What are some different jumping off points you've seen in different WW2 ETO games, and how did those opening moves unfold as the conflict broadened?

[BanzaiCat]

Off the top of my head, COMMAND Magazine did a 'what if' on the Czechs fighting back against Germany in 1938, which would probably have kicked off a wider war. I can't imagine the French and English coming to their aid any more than they did the Poles, but who knows.

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/6049/czechoslovakia-1938

It would be interesting to see what mindset in France would have needed to shift, to see them invade western Germany. I'm pretty sure there's some games out there that cover that, though probably not many.

[bbmike]

You haven't been watching my playthrough of Triumph and Tragedy have you. 

[BanzaiCat]

Not if it's located on a certain farcical Front Page, no 

[bbmike]

No, not you, I was talking to that Brant guy. I knew wouldn't be watching any of my playthroughs. 

[bayonetbrant]

You haven't been watching my playthrough of Triumph and Tragedy have you. 

that was part of the inspiration...   I was also tee'ing you up to discuss it rather than make fun of me 

[bayonetbrant]

Not if it's located on a certain farcical Front Page, no 

it's actually not located there, so you're out of excuses 

[bbmike]

Blitz and Cataclysm are two more games that can see WW2 go off 'off the rails' as the kids say.

[GROGnadsUSA]

Upon quicker conclusion than HOW it actually transpired, then, perhaps the "Winner" might have gotten 'involved'-?
Next up-?

[bayonetbrant]

Upon quicker conclusion than HOW it actually transpired, then, perhaps the "Winner" might have gotten 'involved'-?
Next up-?

I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say here.  I'm asking about alternate starts to WW2 other than just "Germany invades Poland".  If you're trying to make a reference to the idea that maybe the Spanish Civil War causes something more to happen, then that's a reasonable recommendation, but

1) what specifically about the Spanish Civil War would change that start condition, and
2) what specific game allows the ETO to be played out differently based on that change

neither of the games you posted expand to the wider ETO at all, so it wouldn't matter one iota what happened in them w/o a broader ETO game to pick up the next actions

[GROGnadsUSA]

Upon quicker conclusion than HOW it actually transpired, then, perhaps the "Winner" might have gotten 'involved'-?
Next up-?

I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to say here.  I'm asking about alternate starts to WW2 other than just "Germany invades Poland".  If you're trying to make a reference to the idea that maybe the Spanish Civil War causes something more to happen, then that's a reasonable recommendation, but

1) what specifically about the Spanish Civil War would change that start condition, and
2) what specific game allows the ETO to be played out differently based on that change

neither of the games you posted expand to the wider ETO at all, so it wouldn't matter one iota what happened in them w/o a broader ETO game to pick up the next actions

SPAIN may have become an "Axis Ally" or even "Allies", while "Med. Sea"  might have become dominated by the  'R.M.'-!

1) Them being much more actively contributory

2) TSR "E.T.O."-!; "Europe Aflame"; Jedko "Europe at War", XENO "Europe at War"; 'A&A':Europe, etc. 

[Metaldog]

I don't ever venture in here, so, take that for what it's worth.  My two cents would be Italy takes advantage of the Spanish Civil War to do more than send 'volunteers' and declares war on the Republicans.  A successful campaign puts them on the French border and emboldens Hitler to turn west first.  Between the two European Axis partners, they take out France before England can fully mobilize.  It didn't happen in a board game, but, that's how it played out in a Hearts Of Iron II game I played as Italy.

[bayonetbrant]

thanks 'Nads. That's a much more understandable answer

[BanzaiCat]

"nads" 

[GROGnadsUSA]

I don't ever venture in here, so, take that for what it's worth.  My two cents would be Italy takes advantage of the Spanish Civil War to do more than send 'volunteers' and declares war on the Republicans.  A successful campaign puts them on the French border and emboldens Hitler to turn west first.  Between the two European Axis partners, they take out France before England can fully mobilize.  It didn't happen in a board game, but, that's how it played out in a Hearts Of Iron II game I played as Italy.

Yes, while their 'Minor Allies' will amass eventually, and provide still more 'Troops'/etc. being accumulated from these. I have successfully wrought many "ahistorical victory" through the 'Commanding' for 'Minors' during plenty of 'Games'-! 
"THAT required a KNACK-!-"...My Sharona-?