Armchair Dragoons Forums

Wargaming => Age of Gunpowder => Topic started by: bob48 on December 02, 2018, 03:07:34 PM

Title: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on December 02, 2018, 03:07:34 PM
I've been interested in this period for quite a while (plus the war of 1866) so I have just ordered GMT's 'At Any Cost'.

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/158815/any-cost-metz-1870
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on December 02, 2018, 03:17:29 PM
Nice. Maybe we could do a Vassal game sometime.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on December 02, 2018, 03:44:51 PM
Yep - I already have the mod installed....er, have you got it out of shrink yet?.....................

sorry
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on December 02, 2018, 03:45:36 PM
ha. Out of the shrink and partially punched.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on December 02, 2018, 03:53:39 PM
I'm impressed!

I already have played the 'lite' version - 'Position Magnifique' (Duel of Eagles) and downloaded the rules to AAC. There are some differences, but the system is basically the same.

I notice that Legion have a title on pre-order that uses a modified version of the 'Blind Sword' system that looks interesting. Its a period (Italian Wars of Unification) that don't get a lot of game coverage.

http://www.legionwargames.com/legion_AAB.html
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: besilarius on December 02, 2018, 10:11:24 PM
Bawb, if you're really interested in the war, and the period, there's a great chapter in William McElwee's, Art of War Waterloo to Mons.
McElwee was a lecturer at Sandhurst, and from the book's structure, I'm fairly sure it was his lectures to the students on the history of war.  lots of good anecdotes and insights.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on December 03, 2018, 06:42:55 AM
Thanks - I'll look that one up, although my 'to-read' pile is almost as big as mirth's pile of un-opened games  ;)

I have read quite a lot of stuff, but the book by the man himself, von Moltke, is hard to beat.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bbmike on December 03, 2018, 06:45:38 AM
Welcome, besilarius! Glad you found us!

Bob,
Mark Johnson has a great podcast on BGG (Wargames To Go) and the episodes on the Franco-Prussian war are a great listen:

Wargames To Go 13.1 - Franco-Prussian War (Introduction) (https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/68153/wargames-go-131-franco-prussian-war-introduction)

Wargames To Go 13.2 - Franco-Prussian War (Conclusion, with Charles Vasey) (https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/69464/wargames-go-132-franco-prussian-war-conclusion-cha)
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on December 03, 2018, 06:54:12 AM
Excellent! Thanks, Mike  :bigthumb:
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: besilarius on December 03, 2018, 07:21:11 AM
Thanks, Mike.
Every party needs a pooper.  The Dim factor is strong.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bayonetbrant on December 03, 2018, 09:18:01 AM
almost as big as mirth's pile of un-opened games  ;)


have you applied for National Trust status yet as "largest pile of books to be read in the UK"?
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on December 03, 2018, 09:19:54 AM
haha. Most of my games have been opened.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on December 05, 2018, 07:08:01 AM
Game arrived this morning  :bigthumb:
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on February 03, 2019, 04:51:18 PM
Not yet punched

No idea why it turns the image 90 deg once its here, but it shows OK if you click on it!
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bayonetbrant on February 03, 2019, 07:30:22 PM
No idea why it turns the image 90 deg once its here, but it shows OK if you click on it!


probably related to y'all driving on the wrong side of the road
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bbmike on February 03, 2019, 07:31:26 PM
Not yet punched

No idea why it turns the image 90 deg once its here, but it shows OK if you click on it!

You just described 60% of mirth's games!
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on February 04, 2019, 06:47:46 AM
Thank you for your pithy, objective and, dare I say it, helpful reply.

May the bird of paradise fly up your nose.

Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on February 05, 2019, 01:25:08 PM
Counters now punched and sorted into a GMT tray  :)
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bbmike on February 05, 2019, 01:57:00 PM
I'll assume they didn't need any clipping.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on February 05, 2019, 02:29:59 PM
I use a scalpel to separate them from the sprue, and I'm actually engaged in clipping 'em at present.

Playing with untrimmed counters is much like playing mini's with unpainted figures! Not to be contemplated  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Barthheart on February 05, 2019, 02:30:54 PM
 :waiting:
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on February 05, 2019, 02:35:51 PM
'ello Vance, me old mate; how you keeping? Got plenty of snow where you are? keeping busy at work, etc? ::)
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Barthheart on February 05, 2019, 02:40:28 PM
 :blahblah:
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on February 05, 2019, 02:57:29 PM
 8) >:D :ROFL: :groovy: :coffee:
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 01, 2019, 07:28:57 PM
Bob
If you can find a copy, The Franco-Prussian War by Geoffrey Wawro is an excellent history covering the lead up and execution of the war.

I am supposed to learn the rules to  On to Metz but I haven’t done so yet. I wish there were a better operational level game. I’m tempted by Compass Games’ On to Paris but I don’t really need another game and Its received some mixed reviews.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Staggerwing on March 01, 2019, 07:59:47 PM
Bison! Welcome to the monkey house! I knew you wouldn't stay off-grid for ever!
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bbmike on March 01, 2019, 08:23:20 PM
Bison! Welcome!!!!!
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 01, 2019, 09:09:35 PM
Thanks you for,the welcome gents.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: ojsdad on March 01, 2019, 10:05:44 PM
Welcome aboard Bison!
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Martok on March 02, 2019, 03:23:42 AM
Bison!  Great to see you, man! 
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on March 02, 2019, 06:17:49 AM
Hey Bison. Good seeing you around, man!
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on March 02, 2019, 06:44:59 AM
Hey Bison. Good seeing you around, man!

+100!

Delighted to see you here, Bison - Welcome  :bigthumb:

Hope the family are all doing well .
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on March 02, 2019, 06:46:25 AM
Bob
If you can find a copy, The Franco-Prussian War by Geoffrey Wawro is an excellent history covering the lead up and execution of the war.

I am supposed to learn the rules to  On to Metz but I haven’t done so yet. I wish there were a better operational level game. I’m tempted by Compass Games’ On to Paris but I don’t really need another game and Its received some mixed reviews.

Yeah - I can get a copy on amazon, but its rather expensive. I have it on my wish list though  :)

Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 02, 2019, 07:38:03 AM
Hey Bison. Good seeing you around, man!

Hey Bison. Good seeing you around, man!

+100!

Delighted to see you here, Bison - Welcome  :bigthumb:

Hope the family are all doing well .

Thanks gents.

Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 02, 2019, 07:45:27 AM
Bob
If you can find a copy, The Franco-Prussian War by Geoffrey Wawro is an excellent history covering the lead up and execution of the war.


Yeah - I can get a copy on amazon, but its rather expensive. I have it on my wish list though  :)

I had not realized it was an expensive book. :(  But it may not have had a large print run. I don’t imagine the Franco-Prussian war is a big draw compared to other conflicts.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on March 02, 2019, 07:49:05 AM
Its £22 for a paperback on amazon, which, for a poor old pensioner like me is expensive. ;) However, I keep checking for a decent used copy which will do me fine.

Mind you, its still hard to beat the von Moltke book.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 02, 2019, 07:56:50 AM
i have read my fair of and about Moltke interesting stuff for sure.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on March 02, 2019, 08:03:57 AM
Bob
If you can find a copy, The Franco-Prussian War by Geoffrey Wawro is an excellent history covering the lead up and execution of the war.

I am supposed to learn the rules to  On to Metz but I haven’t done so yet. I wish there were a better operational level game. I’m tempted by Compass Games’ On to Paris but I don’t really need another game and Its received some mixed reviews.

Thanks for the book recommendation. Was able to find a Used/VG hardbound copy on Amazon for $13.

I got a good look at On to Paris at the Compass Con in November. I wasn't terribly impressed and passed on it even though I could have bought it for 50% off.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 02, 2019, 08:16:50 AM
I have a couple of issues with Compass Games in general that makes me hesitant to purchase their games.

1. Counters - why do they have to choose such garish colors?  I look at a photos of counter sheets and I’m just put off immediately.
2. Rules - This is really my issue but I just prefer the GMT style of 1.0, 1.1, 1.2...to more narrative type rules. I find it much easier for referencing during gameplay.


Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on March 02, 2019, 08:27:41 AM
I picked up Korea: Fire and Ice and South China Sea while I was at the con. I'm happy enough with them having only paid half-price, but I would have been disappointed if I had paid the full retail. The maps and counters aren't great, imo. Definitely not up to a GMT level of quality.

I like that Compass is putting put a wide variety of games that cover many periods, but I'm a little put off by the production value vs cost.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on March 02, 2019, 08:45:13 AM
Mirth, I did the same with On To Paris. Its based on the system used for the old Victory Games ACW game. Not bad, but I didn't find it that playable. personally.

Bison, I agree with you re the counter art. The map looks OK but the counters show a distinct lack of imagination!.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 02, 2019, 09:47:27 AM
I like that Compass is putting put a wide variety of games that cover many periods, but I'm a little put off by the production value vs cost.

Completely agree. They have games covering a great range of periods, which is why I keep reading the news letter and browsing their site. However,  the cost and production like you say gives me pause too. For example, I almost bought Raiders of the Deep. World War I u-boats interesting and unique aspect of the war to examine. It cost $100 after tax. I couldn’t do it. I had just got a copy of Fire in the Lake by GMT for much less and the components and production quality are just so much better. Now if I ever see a copy of Battle Hymn Gettysburg and Pea Ridge....I’ll most likely crumble.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on March 02, 2019, 10:52:20 AM
Another book that's on my want list;
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Austro-Prussian-War-Austrias-Prussia-Italy/dp/0521629519/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1551541791&sr=8-3&keywords=wawro
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 02, 2019, 11:38:17 AM
I haven’t read that book yet. Added to the list. Thanking for the enabling Bob.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on March 02, 2019, 11:42:23 AM
 :bigthumb:
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on March 02, 2019, 11:56:41 AM
I haven’t read that book yet. Added to the list. Thanking for the enabling Bob.

+1
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 02, 2019, 12:02:37 PM
It’s the encouragement to empty my wallet I missed most about you guys.  >:(
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on March 02, 2019, 12:09:21 PM
lol - since when did you need any encouragement from us...................
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 02, 2019, 12:13:53 PM
Don’t make me culpable for my actions bob. That’s not how codependency works.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on March 02, 2019, 01:30:43 PM
 :blahblah: :biggrin:
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 02, 2019, 01:34:17 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on March 06, 2019, 07:35:02 PM
look what came today


(https://i.imgur.com/HfmG0qr.jpg)
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 06, 2019, 08:09:51 PM
Awesome!
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on March 06, 2019, 08:12:14 PM
Not bad for $13
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 06, 2019, 08:16:07 PM
For sure. I’ll be interested to read you impressions.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on March 06, 2019, 08:51:15 PM
Looking forward to starting it. I have several books going already, but this one is now at the top of the stack.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on March 07, 2019, 06:56:02 AM
Excellent!
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: BanzaiCat on March 07, 2019, 07:10:01 AM
I've become more and more interested in that time period because it's fascinating how you can trace WWI and WWII back to Napoleonic times. Maybe further. It's like unraveling a string and getting surprise after surprise.

I'd looked a bit more into it when I bought At Any Cost. I admit I had utter ignorance that the Germans captured Paris. I knew they won but didn't know the circumstances nor how deeply that conquest ran.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on March 07, 2019, 07:20:39 AM
Yep, the whole period from 1854 up to 1871 is indeed fascinating and i'm deeply interested in it. I now need to read a bit more about the Italian 3rd War of Unification.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bbmike on March 07, 2019, 08:04:17 AM
I've become more and more interested in that time period because it's fascinating how you can trace WWI and WWII back to Napoleonic times. Maybe further. It's like unraveling a string and getting surprise after surprise.

I'd looked a bit more into it when I bought At Any Cost. I admit I had utter ignorance that the Germans captured Paris. I knew they won but didn't know the circumstances nor how deeply that conquest ran.

You can even trace it forwards up to The Four Years War!
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on March 07, 2019, 08:07:26 AM
It's a fascinating period. Gaming FPW has stoked in my interest in learning more about it.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bbmike on March 07, 2019, 08:19:20 AM
I've pointed this out to Bob in the past but it's worth repeating. I recommend Mark Johnson's Wargames to Go podcast episode on the Franco-Prussian War (https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/68153/wargames-go-131-franco-prussian-war-introduction) if you are interested.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bayonetbrant on March 07, 2019, 08:29:24 AM
I've become more and more interested in that time period because it's fascinating how you can trace WWI and WWII back to Napoleonic times. Maybe further. It's like unraveling a string and getting surprise after surprise.




Back in college, the prof I had for my ancient history class used to joke that the cause of WWI was that Crassus fell off his horse during a Roman campaign.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: BanzaiCat on March 07, 2019, 08:32:29 AM
One thing I love about this hobby is, there's always new stuff to uncover. Even after you THINK you couldn't possibly read anything more that'll reveal new ways of thinking about it, you come across that kind of thing.

Makes the whole "Nazis started WWII" statement kind of, "ehhhh, well...there's a few layers to it, like Ogres and onions." ;)
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on March 07, 2019, 08:46:34 AM
This, in case you have not read it, is an excellent book;

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Road-K%C3%B6niggr%C3%A4tz-Helmuth-Moltke-Austro-Prussian/dp/1909384968/ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1?keywords=road+to+koniggratz&qid=1551966336&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmrnull

As is this:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seven-Weeks-War-Austro-Prussian-Conflict/dp/1782820108/ref=sxbs_sxwds-stvp?keywords=road+to+koniggratz&pd_rd_i=1782820108&pd_rd_r=6b1c337d-2281-450b-9085-069b1f2d2b75&pd_rd_w=YKwVD&pd_rd_wg=FvWg3&pf_rd_p=96416462-6ec5-42ef-a70a-1613ca6d0693&pf_rd_r=ZWGRWKJCY0ZQCGM7B85S&qid=1551966401&s=gateway
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 07, 2019, 09:56:33 AM
If someone is interested in reading about Moltke's thoughts on war and military operations, this is a good translation of his actual writings.

https://www.amazon.com/Moltke-Art-War-Selected-Writings/dp/0891415750


Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on March 07, 2019, 10:07:41 AM
 :bigthumb:
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on March 07, 2019, 10:24:42 AM
If someone is interested in reading about Moltke's thoughts on war and military operations, this is a good translation of his actual writings.

https://www.amazon.com/Moltke-Art-War-Selected-Writings/dp/0891415750 (https://www.amazon.com/Moltke-Art-War-Selected-Writings/dp/0891415750)

yer killin me  ;)
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on March 07, 2019, 10:25:54 AM
The more I read about him, the I realise what a remarkable man he was.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 07, 2019, 10:35:23 AM
If someone is interested in reading about Moltke's thoughts on war and military operations, this is a good translation of his actual writings.

https://www.amazon.com/Moltke-Art-War-Selected-Writings/dp/0891415750 (https://www.amazon.com/Moltke-Art-War-Selected-Writings/dp/0891415750)

yer killin me  ;)

This one will only cost you about $7 for a used copy. See I'm already saving you money in an indirect sort of way. :D
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 07, 2019, 10:38:29 AM
The more I read about him, the I realise what a remarkable man he was.

He made some pretty significant contributions but was not with out fault. For example, he had a pretty narrow view about the relationship between political policy (think strategy) and military operations.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on March 07, 2019, 10:41:09 AM
If someone is interested in reading about Moltke's thoughts on war and military operations, this is a good translation of his actual writings.

https://www.amazon.com/Moltke-Art-War-Selected-Writings/dp/0891415750 (https://www.amazon.com/Moltke-Art-War-Selected-Writings/dp/0891415750)

yer killin me  ;)

This one will only cost you about $7 for a used copy. See I'm already saving you money in an indirect sort of way. :D

I need to get through the book I just bought before making additional purchases  :idiot2:
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 07, 2019, 10:50:57 AM
I need to get through the book I just bought before making additional purchases  :idiot2:

Who are you and what have you done to Mirth?
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on March 07, 2019, 11:13:30 AM
You should see the stack of books I already have going.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 07, 2019, 11:15:28 AM
Yeah I have a shelf of need to read too, but having too many books to read is not the worst problem to have in life.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on March 07, 2019, 11:19:59 AM
Truth
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bayonetbrant on March 07, 2019, 12:00:58 PM
You should see the stack of books I already have going.


bigger or smaller than the stack of games?
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on March 07, 2019, 12:23:30 PM
The game stack is always bigger
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on March 14, 2019, 06:39:02 PM
If you can find a copy, The Franco-Prussian War by Geoffrey Wawro is an excellent history covering the lead up and execution of the war.

I'm only 65 pages into this, but I can already say it is fantastic.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: bob48 on March 14, 2019, 06:44:35 PM
I'll borrow your copy when you've finished it :-)
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: mirth on March 14, 2019, 06:45:41 PM
you got it  :bigthumb:
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: Bison on March 14, 2019, 11:52:32 PM
If you can find a copy, The Franco-Prussian War by Geoffrey Wawro is an excellent history covering the lead up and execution of the war.

I'm only 65 pages into this, but I can already say it is fantastic.

 :bigthumb:

It really is a very good history.
Title: Re: Franco-Prussian War
Post by: besilarius on March 15, 2019, 07:10:27 AM
Bismarck played Napoleon the Little like a violin.