Armchair Dragoons Forums
Wargaming => The Modern World => Topic started by: judgedredd on October 12, 2020, 11:27:24 AM
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How is it possible to watch a video of a game and "get it" then read the manual and be lost :2funny:
Seriously though - I've just realised the FoF2 manual does not have a "much, much, much needed" index! If there's a game I've ever come across that absolutely needs an index, it's this one.
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How is it possible to watch a video of a game and "get it" then read the manual and be lost :2funny:
VERY easy. I've done that with Hitler's Reich and Hearts & Minds recently. I got D-Day at Tarawa back to the table too and it wasn't clicking with me either, even though I've played it several times and never had an issue with it.
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Might have to buy card sleeves - that's the third video I've seen that recommends them for this game.
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Weren't you just making fun of me for that? :hehe:
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Weren't you just making fun of me for that? :hehe:
uhuh :whistle:
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The more I go through these rules the more I see how so utterly useless they will be when I decide to play. With no index on a 63 page rulebook, it'll be nigh impossible to find anything.
Last night I wanted to double check what constituted a LAT...limited action team. No index meant I had to troll through all the pages until I stumbled across it
Really quite sad actually
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Is there a PDF of the manual available?
If so you can load it up on your computer (or better yet, an iPad or other tablet to keep near the game table) and try to do a word search for some of the things you need to find out about.
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Yeah there is. I've got it. I was reading the paper manual in bed last night.
Just making a point. I've read much smaller rules, easier to absorb and they had indices
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It's a shame. I've heard it's a fantastic game but the rulebook is a hot mess.
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So I did think (briefly) about card sleeves - but they come in packs of 50 or 100 - and FoF2 has thoughtfully made the deck of action cards count 51...so either one card would go without a sleeve or I have 49 spare.
Decided against it. I likely won't play the game enough to ever warrant sleeves.
I'm takin' ma chances - rollin' the die...living on the edge :2funny:
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It's a shame. I've heard it's a fantastic game but the rulebook is a hot mess.
It's like the sequence of play isn't actually really a full sequence of play. Or it's just full of text without really being particularly helpful.
For example 3.3 is the Friendly Command Phase. It mentions the major elements of that section and takes up almost half an A4 page - but it doesn't really tell you much. It mentions the order of the activation segments and basically says (repeats) that you pull a card and assign orders...and it repeats that from Bn HQ through CO HQ to Plt HQ in the Activation Section and pretty much repeats that again in the Initiative Section.
In fact that's the whole manual really - it says alot without really saying much of anything/. There's alot of writing and reading it I can't help but think there are large sections of text that could be cut because it doesn't really add much. And fill those cut sections with more meaningful, helpful pointers.
And honest to god - I simply can't express enough how unhelpful not having an index is for a manual this full of text and this size. Did I say that already? Because if I didn't, I should've ;D
I'm half way through and I'm not at all clear (when I think about it) about when to apply PDF and VoF markers...so I'll have to find and read those sections again - and I've watched videos too.
I do really like the look of the game and the mechanics - so I am really excited to dive into it. Though there's another issue. I watched a guy playing and having to keep track of units is going to be a mare. I think those multi coloured see through discs I bought will come in handy.
I'm not playing the first couple of missions of Peleliu - I'm steering clear of vehicles for the moment. I'll jump into a small infantry combat game first off (if there is a small one - I haven't checked!).
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I just watched a video that pointed out FoF2 says on the back it has a deck of Normandy terrain cards (it doesn't - it has Peleliu terrain cards).
I had no idea you could copy and paste when it came to creating boardgames. I thought that was specific to being a developer
:2funny:
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I've just read on the manual on page 32
Example #1 from the Advanced Tutorial (page 11)
Where the hell isthe advanced tutorial?
Edit - apparently is in Vol1
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Oh man, I feel this on a personal level.. I've committed to trying to learn this game twice, I mean REALLY committed. This game is an abolute enigma. If you're committed to getting the rules 'right' it is just so difficult.. Currently split on wether I should sell the game or give it another try. It's so close to being something good, but easily the most confusing rulebook I've ever engaged with. Every turn is just "wait.. what about this? oh and this edge case? Huh but what if this..."
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Well maybe I'm a sucker for punishment but I've just ordered FoF Vol 1 from BGG. I liked the look of the Normandy campaign and I see they use random terrain card draws. Also there's apparently more infantry only stuff which might help ease me in
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Oh man, I feel this on a personal level.. I've committed to trying to learn this game twice, I mean REALLY committed. This game is an abolute enigma. If you're committed to getting the rules 'right' it is just so difficult.. Currently split on wether I should sell the game or give it another try. It's so close to being something good, but easily the most confusing rulebook I've ever engaged with. Every turn is just "wait.. what about this? oh and this edge case? Huh but what if this..."
This is not the first time I've seen this comment or something similar about these games and its really the only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger to buy them.
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I see a lot of angst over this game, people go into this with the wrong attitude, thinking it's some beast that must be conquered and they never get to enjoy the game. I watched the complete playthrough videos on YouTube by Chris Hobbs and Mike Whitmore before I even looked the rules. I was in awe of the gameplay and really wanted to play it. The rules were a lot easier to understand after that. However there is a ton of errata to consider (FoF2 has even more) but the gameplay flows nicely when it clicks and it is a lot of fun.
What makes it difficult is the edge cases that pop up and are not covered by the rules. I adopt a 5 minute rule in that if I cant find a ruling within 5 minutes in the book or at the BGG forums, I make a judgement call and play on. I'll sometimes make a note and then do a proper search afterwards. The important thing is not to get bogged down. Most of the time, the judgement call turns out out to be the correct one. Don't worry about it too much, it is a solo game after all and if you're having fun, that's the important thing.
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I have been watching some videos. Sometimes they are very helpful - but then other times I find them somewhat confusing.
For example I'm watching a guy play the first Peleliu mission and moving units onto cards where other units already are (example - he had units on cards then moved amphib vehicles onto those cards and unloaded the infantry...and I was looking and thinking "How is he keeping track of what infantry he's already dealt with?")
The game does have a huge appeal for me now I've read half the manual and watched videos - but the manual...and no index. That really sticks in my throat.
I do now have a stand for my Samsung tablet so I can now have the digital copy of the rules for searching whilst I'm playing - when I get it to the table.
I think I'll make a start on this...Fields of Fire 1 before Fields of Fire 2 (more infantry only and random terrain cards) and after my RAF:Battle of Britain game I'm currently playing.
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Yeah, I would definitely start with Vol 1
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Good point Pinetree, definitely think the 5 minute rule is a good idea. I'm going to give this a stab again at some point, will just write down my rules questions, play as best I can and try not to get bogged down with the little items. I'm normally very strict with myself rules-wise so it is a little counter to my nature, but I think you're right it is a solo game after all and the narrative is half the fun.