Armchair Dragoons Forums
Wargaming => Age of Gunpowder => Topic started by: bob48 on August 27, 2021, 07:08:34 AM
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Focus On.......Command & Colours (C&C)
This month, I thought we would look at another popular game series, albeit one that I personally have never played. I am aware that the series covers multiple periods, but for now, I'd like to stick to games set in the18th and 19th Century. My impression is that the Napoleonic period is the most widely played, but no doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong! Whilst admitting to not playing the games, or, to be honest, being a great fan of the period, I have watched quite a few games run by Jim (Cyrano) for his wonderful 'Saturday Night Fights' using Table Top Simulator (TTS) It indeed looks like a fun system to play and the participants certainly seem to enjoy it. If you haven't visited Jim's youtube channel, then you are definitely missing out.
Here is a link, so you have no excuses!
However; I digress. Lets hear what you think about the game, be it good, bad or ugly.
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Great system. For me it's C&C: Tricorne all the way! :bigthumb:
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Always pleased to hear of such a discussion.
I'm obviously a fan and have just about everything ever made for the system, the notable exceptions being the Samurai set (never a period that caught my fancy) and the Red Alert which I will seek on deep discount at some point.
Surely Memoir is the most popular and one of the most successful entry-level wargames in existence. Say whatever you will of it, and I might well agree, but it has absolutely brought hundreds of people at least into the suburbs of the hobby. "D-Day Landings" is an absolute, absurd classic of the form.
Battle Cry would have done much better had Hasbro not been the right goofs that they are and refused any attempt at expansion or supplement. It's still insanely popular despite its profound limitations.
Ancients remains one of GMT's best sellers and is on, I'm pretty sure, its 12,000th edition. In many ways, I find it to be the purest melding of the game as it is and the period it seeks to represent. It's a "play anytime" game and regular SNF favorite.
And, yeah, considering my son and I played just about every Napoleonic battle there is over the course of a year, I'm a fan. Can you knock the system, yes you can and I sometimes do. I will never truly be a fan of hexes with my toys, but it is the best entry-level Napoleonic game in existence, introduces you to the principle players in the epic, and does at least offer a passing acquaintance with some -- note some -- of the challenges of command in the era. I should also really never be played save in the epic or LGB mode.
I own all the AmRev, Jacobite, Medieval stuff and find them very fine, but won't really jump in until one of them goes epic.
Oh, and one should mention Battle Lore. The second edition is rubbish and is not C&C. The first one actually gives a very nice game of Agincourt, provided you keep the dwarves and monsters to the side...
And if Mystery Wizard comes out before the LGB expansion...I will be cross...
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I have Memoir 44, C&C Ancients, C&C Napoleonic's and Battle Cry all of which I enjoy. (Although I've never gotten my physical copy of C&C Napoleonic's to the table only played during SNF) Its hard to pick a favorite especially since Jim is doing his best to ruin all but the epic versions of these games for me :biggrin:
In the season of life I find myself in now I have really appreciated how easy the basics of the system are to learn. I.E. three areas and cards that give you a chance to order troops in those areas. So easy in fact that I've been able to teach my 5 yr old Memoir 44 using just the orders cards. As he learns to read I plan to introduce the tactics cards to him. However, he is already starting to pick up on the basic concepts of attack and defense and how to use units together. I'm looking forward letting him explore some of the more complex games as he gets older.
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Great game series. Memoir 44, Ancients, and Napoleonic's are the only ones I own. But I have played Battle Cry and wish it would get a fresh coat of paint. My only real gripe about the series is the stupid stickered dice. It's a poor decision IMHO that GMT does not produce and include an etched set of dice. The sticker dice feel so cheap. I am always worried when I play someone will pick and pull the stickers off the "dice". They are in the Yugo category of dice quality.
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Great game series. Memoir 44, Ancients, and Napoleonic's are the only ones I own. But I have played Battle Cry and wish it would get a fresh coat of paint. My only real gripe about the series is the stupid stickered dice. It's a poor decision IMHO that GMT does not produce and include an etched set of dice. The sticker dice feel so cheap. I am always worried when I play someone will pick and pull the stickers off the "dice". They are in the Yugo category of dice quality.
Agreed about the dice. Back when I first got ancients I got this nice set of wooden dice to replace the stickered dice. However, I don't think the company is in business anymore. :-\
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameaccessory/144322/commands-colors-ancients-wooden-dice
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Great game series. Memoir 44, Ancients, and Napoleonic's are the only ones I own. But I have played Battle Cry and wish it would get a fresh coat of paint. My only real gripe about the series is the stupid stickered dice. It's a poor decision IMHO that GMT does not produce and include an etched set of dice. The sticker dice feel so cheap. I am always worried when I play someone will pick and pull the stickers off the "dice". They are in the Yugo category of dice quality.
Agreed about the dice. Back when I first got ancients I got this nice set of wooden dice to replace the stickered dice. However, I don't think the company is in business anymore. :-\
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameaccessory/144322/commands-colors-ancients-wooden-dice
I was up late one night and noted that someone was selling their Naps dice for something like $8 a set. I bought five sets.
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Very smart Cyrano. I wish I had jumped on an opportunity to pick up dice for them several years back.
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Has anyone hacked together a minis adaptation for C&C:N similar to the M'44 figs?
It'd be a neat look, if nothing else.
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Has anyone hacked together a minis adaptation for C&C:N similar to the M'44 figs?
It'd be a neat look, if nothing else.
You have seen SNF right?
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Has anyone hacked together a minis adaptation for C&C:N similar to the M'44 figs?
It'd be a neat look, if nothing else.
You have seen SNF right?
Real figs, not copy & paste ones
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You have seen SNF right?
What would be cool in SNF is to see the figs animated like many other computer games (or the Star Wars 'chess' game) but I'd settle for an oversize map (3" hexes?) and a passel of well-groomed minis getting pushed around the map
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So, C&C:N players...
Riddle me this: What are some things about Napoleonic warfare that C&C just doesn't do very well? Cavalry ops? Infantry in squares? Bombardments?
Where does C&C fall apart based on what we know of Napoleonic battles?
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Has anyone hacked together a minis adaptation for C&C:N similar to the M'44 figs?
It'd be a neat look, if nothing else.
Lots of folks.
Little Wars has at least two a year. Usually PTO as the fellow who does it has an interest.
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Has anyone hacked together a minis adaptation for C&C:N similar to the M'44 figs?
It'd be a neat look, if nothing else.
You have seen SNF right?
Real figs, not copy & paste ones
I shan't take offense, but your distinction here is deeply ignorant. Avoid it in future.
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I shan't take offense, but your distinction here is deeply ignorant. Avoid it in future.
:notworthy:
:peace:
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I'm actually surprised that we didn't get more post about this game; really, I expected to get more response to C&C than we did for ASL.
Wrong! (so far, anyway).
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Ancients remains one of GMT's best sellers and is on, I'm pretty sure, its 12,000th edition. In many ways, I find it to be the purest melding of the game as it is and the period it seeks to represent. It's a "play anytime" game and regular SNF favorite.
I'm really looking forward to Napoleon vs. Blucher at Gaugamela.
Riddle me this: What are some things about Napoleonic warfare that C&C just doesn't do very well? Cavalry ops? Infantry in squares? Bombardments?
Where does C&C fall apart based on what we know of Napoleonic battles?
I'll admit I've only played C&C solo a few times and never played Napoleonics, but I have watched some games on TV, so that qualifies me to comment, right?
I'm certainly willing to be convinced otherwise, and I do think the C&C series are great games, but they are too "gamey" to really get me. It sometimes seems more to me like a card-hand management game than something that reflects the realities of ancient or Napoleonic battles. For example, the square formation for infantry---you lose access to a random card in your hand, right? I also don't really feel the difference between cavalry and infantry.
I really like the attempt at command friction, but I don't know that the actual implementation feels right.
What does C&C do really well, as far as Napoleonic battles?
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I've only played C&C via Cyrano's SNF battles. it's great fun but it hasn't been enough for me to buy the board games (yeah yeah, shaddup).
I'd love to get into the Nappy C&C stuff, but there's so bloody many expansions now. I did back the P500 for Samurai but backed out a couple of months before. I came close but didn't quite get there. :whistle:
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I love Tricorne!
Like you, BC, I would love to own the Napoleonic stuff but there's no way I'm shelling out for all those expansions.
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I really like the attempt at command friction, but I don't know that the actual implementation feels right.
What does C&C do really well, as far as Napoleonic battles?
To seek simulation is chimerical. It's why I've largely given up on the excesses of La Bat, Empire, and similar.
One must imagine oneself not commanding actual armies -- that's really just the KS and one or two other games anyway -- but as Carracticus Potts and his Brigadier in Chitty-Chitty Bang-Bang. The men are there, the terrain is there (it's almost always abstract anyway), the troop type variations are there (better here than in other games I could mention), and you have the challenge of shoving men about the field and getting them to do your bidding even when the cards tell you they, in fact, won't. The system is very clean, well tested, and gives battles that, curiously enough, regularly give decent results.
You can also play Borodino on a really big table, with lots of figures, in an evening.
It is, at its best, a doorway to the lovely spectacle of Napoleonic miniature games.
As for that particular mechanic, I rather like it. It's an elegant way of reflecting how forming squares cannot be done
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I love Tricorne!
Like you, BC, I would love to own the Napoleonic stuff but there's no way I'm shelling out for all those expansions.
As if there isn't someone around here who has ALL of it and runs regular games of it on-line or something.
HARUMPH!
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I have all the expansions except the one that doubles the board. I cannot remember the name. Anyway I simply traded Scythe and Formula One board games for it.
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I didn't think you could play C&C solo...?
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I love Tricorne!
Like you, BC, I would love to own the Napoleonic stuff but there's no way I'm shelling out for all those expansions.
As if there isn't someone around here who has ALL of it and runs regular games of it on-line or something.
HARUMPH!
I wanna feel those blocks!
I didn't think you could play C&C solo...?
:doh:
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I'd much rather clip counter corners that stick stickers on blocks! ;)
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I'd much rather clip counter corners that stick stickers on blocks! ;)
Weirdo! :silly:
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...takes one to know one...eh!
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:hug:
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;D :party:
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I'm not a big fan of having to sticker a bunch of blocks. I don't really see what they add to the game anyway. I'd much prefer to have some nice, big rounded counters with great artwork on them.
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:bigthumb:
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I didn't think you could play C&C solo...?
You can multi-hand it, no problem. I'm almost certain there's got to me some solo variants on BGG.
Plus, there's a guy we just got a 'harumpf!" out of on the last page. Word on the street is he runs C&C games online or something. Unless that's past your bedtime, JD? :biggrin:
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Sometimes it's like I'm not even here. (https://www.aarcentral.com/emoti/shrug.gif)
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:hug:
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Sometimes it's like I'm not even here. (https://www.aarcentral.com/emoti/shrug.gif)
:-*
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Sometimes it's like I'm not even here. (https://www.aarcentral.com/emoti/shrug.gif)
Perhaps this is why you solo...
You can only see dead people?
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I don't think so. I think this site is just hostile towards solo gamers in general.
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I wouldn't say the SITE is hostile. A few folks are definitely not in the solo gaming camp.
I don't care if someone hates solo gaming...that's their loss. :party:
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I'm wondering, has anyone come up with a random battle generator for any of the C&C games? Or for that matter, has anyone created a scenario of their own?
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I don't think so. I think this site is just hostile towards solo gamers in general.
Oh, heavens, don't blame the whole site for me. I'm just that crabby guy that yells at clouds. Ask Vance...he'll tell you.
I suspect others are far more into it than I'll ever be.
And I'm not so much hostile as uninterested. My bile only rises when I see a game that I think would be really, really cool only to discover it's solo-only. "Field Commander: Napoleon" being the greatest example of this.
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I'm wondering, has anyone come up with a random battle generator for any of the C&C games? Or for that matter, has anyone created a scenario of their own?
I've not seen one, but know quite a few folks that have built their own battles. It's harder than it looks, frankly, because you have to work your way back from your love of the battle and the period to the level of abstraction in the game. The latest WSS has an excellent example of scenario design for C&C:N from my on-line friend Conrad Kinch.
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My bile only rises when I see a game that I think would be really, really cool only to discover it's solo-only.
Wasn't that like half of last year's Compass catalog too?
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I don't think so. I think this site is just hostile towards solo gamers in general.
Oh, heavens, don't blame the whole site for me. I'm just that crabby guy that yells at clouds. Ask Vance...he'll tell you.
I suspect others are far more into it than I'll ever be.
And I'm not so much hostile as uninterested. My bile only rises when I see a game that I think would be really, really cool only to discover it's solo-only. "Field Commander: Napoleon" being the greatest example of this.
I've said it before, I actually prefer games that are not solo-only. For me it's the best of both worlds. 8)
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Well my 5 year old wanted to play a game of Memoir 44 today and it was buried in the back of the game closet and I'll be honest I was being lazy and didn't want to dig it out and restack everything so I pulled out C&C Ancients which just happened to be at the top of the pile and asked he if wanted to try it as it was similar to Memoir. While he was unimpressed with the "boring board" and lack of terrain in the game he took a liking to the "soldier pictures of the blocks" so said he would give it a try. (Also he really liked the custom wooden dice I had for the game)
While we set up, which is always his favorite as he loves to hold and inspect all the playing pieces, I went over the basic similarities w/ Memoir and some important differences. He really liked the whole idea of battling back in close combat. So beyond helping read some of the more specialized cards and helping him comprehend some of what they might mean in game terms he jumped right in and picked up the basics of ancients warfare faster than I thought he would.
Well long story short his light infantry just brutalized anything that go within range of his spears and arrows, which he then withdrew as I closed with my infantry and cav. He then destroyed my center with a very well played card for his heavy infantry. And to cap it all off he delivered a coup de grace with a unit of his medium cav commander by his general which not only wiped out a unit of my infantry but also succeeded in killing the attached leader. It was a fun game and he did really well ... oh who am I kidding the kid destroyed me at my own game and won 5 banners to my 0 :doh:
Needless to say a rematch has been scheduled for next weekend, at his insistence because "it was fun and he wants to beat me again" 8)
https://twitter.com/thecommandtent/status/1437203901242019845
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Good lord man! Sleeves are in order for them there cards!
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The only game I've felt the need to sleeve was Fields of Fire
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Good lord man! Sleeves are in order for them there cards!
I haven't yet gone down the dark path of sleeving my cards :nope:
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It was a fun game and he did really well ... oh who am I kidding the kid destroyed me at my own game and won 5 banners to my 0 :doh:
His name is not Alexander, is it?
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Good lord man! Sleeves are in order for them there cards!
I haven't yet gone down the dark path of sleeving my cards :nope:
:rockon:
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We will see who's laughing when the cards are covered in left over Spaghetti O's and tzatziki.
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My cards never need sleeving. And I've played with Vance while drinking.
Merit of virtual gaming.
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You dudes not sleeving your cards don't play your games enough. If you did, you would. :Loser:
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We will see who's laughing when the cards are covered in left over Spaghetti O's and tzatziki.
I'm OCD about no food near my games. Also, plenty of baby wipes at hand to make sure the kid is scrubbed up before playing. ;D
You dudes not sleeving your cards don't play your games enough. If you did, you would. :Loser:
Look, I spent enough time putting all the stickers on the C&C blocks, no way I'm sleeving all those cards. :notme:
My cards never need sleeving. And I've played with Vance while drinking.
Merit of virtual gaming.
I see what you did there.
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You dudes not sleeving your cards don't play your games enough. If you did, you would. :Loser:
Look, I spent enough time putting all the stickers on the C&C blocks, no way I'm sleeving all those cards. :notme:
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Wait! Block games! We need to find block protectors! :D
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:doh: :silly:
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We will see who's laughing when the cards are covered in left over Spaghetti O's and tzatziki.
I'm OCD about no food near my games. Also, plenty of baby wipes at hand to make sure the kid is scrubbed up before playing. ;D
Besides, who would put tzatziki sauce on their Spaghetti Os?
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Not me. For one thing, I have no idea what it is. ???
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Tzatziki is a Greek dish...normally a starter I think. If I recall correctly it's thinly sliced cucumber and yoghurt with a touch of garlic and mint.
It's very nice with toasted soldiers ;D
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You would know about these things - I seem to remember you saying that you had been stationed in Cyprus while you were in 'the army?
Oh, and just to make sure every one knows that in this case, a toasted soldier is what we call toast cut into strips - for dunking in yer boiled egg, innit :biggrin:
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a toasted soldier is what we call toast cut into strips - for dunking in yer boiled egg, innit :biggrin:
Bovril: Morning, squadron leader.
Squadron Leader: What-ho, Squiffy.
Bovril: >How was it?
Squadron Leader: Top hole. Bally Jerry pranged his kite right in the how's your father. Hairy blighter, dicky-birdied, feathered back on his Sammy, took a waspy, flipped over on his Betty Harper's and caught his can in the Bertie.
Bovril: Er, I'm afraid I don't quite follow you, squadron leader.
Squadron Leader: It's perfectly ordinary banter, Squiffy. Bally Jerry ... pranged his kite right in the how's yer father ... hairy blighter, dicky-birdied, feathered back on his Sammy, took a waspy, flipped over on his Betty Harper's and caught his can in the Bertie.
Bovril: No, I'm just not understanding banter at all well today. Give us it slower.
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Tzatziki is a Greek dish...normally a starter I think. If I recall correctly it's thinly sliced cucumber and yoghurt with a touch of garlic and mint.
It's very nice with toasted soldiers ;D
:doh:
So, do you stack your C&C blocks, stand them up in a square, or just chuck 'em in a hex like some kind of savage?
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a toasted soldier is what we call toast cut into strips - for dunking in yer boiled egg, innit :biggrin:
Bovril: Morning, squadron leader.
Squadron Leader: What-ho, Squiffy.
Bovril: >How was it?
Squadron Leader: Top hole. Bally Jerry pranged his kite right in the how's your father. Hairy blighter, dicky-birdied, feathered back on his Sammy, took a waspy, flipped over on his Betty Harper's and caught his can in the Bertie.
Bovril: Er, I'm afraid I don't quite follow you, squadron leader.
Squadron Leader: It's perfectly ordinary banter, Squiffy. Bally Jerry ... pranged his kite right in the how's yer father ... hairy blighter, dicky-birdied, feathered back on his Sammy, took a waspy, flipped over on his Betty Harper's and caught his can in the Bertie.
Bovril: No, I'm just not understanding banter at all well today. Give us it slower.
Cabbage crates over the briney?
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Bawb, it sounds like you have a cunning plan.
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As a father of many, I will say that the very nature of a child is to spread and distribute things. It is done unknowingly to facilitate a chaotic harmony in the universe. Food, germs, dirt, snot. It is not a localized phenomenon owned solely in the prevue of a messy child. No. I contend before the court that is not the most obvious in the collusion with micro-level distortions of order and cleanliness who are of concern. For we knowingly watch and monitor the disaster left behind. We make mental notes of those areas needing to be addressed to protect our most vulnerable objects from dirt, grim, and stains. It is the so called clean child whose deception is often the culprit of leading the horrifying disfigurement of card stock, paper, and other possessions. The true unwitting crime is this nature transcends youth and follow them in to adulthood. You have all been warned. Protect yourselves.
As far as Canadians, I fear they have ways to spill a virtual beverage on your virtual components. And certainly will attempt to cover their behavior with a polite sorry before, during, and after the event!
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As far as Canadians, I fear they have ways to spill a virtual beverage on your virtual components. And certainly will attempt to cover their behavior with a polite sorry before, during, and after the event!
I can't speak for you heathens bellow the border, but up here the spilling of beer is a capitol offence punished by banishment from the beer fridge! Hence, no one dares to commit such a crime. 8)
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Another game of C&C Ancients with my 5 yr old. He had complete confidence this time and remembered most of what was going on from last week. His center was full of heavy infantry and with 2 well played "Line of Command" cards he was able to drive into my center completely destroying it and beating me yet again :) He says he is really looking forward to playing more especially since I showed him the next scenario has elephants. :o
https://twitter.com/thecommandtent/status/1439718358803492873
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Tent, you are so lucky to have a child who is actually interested in your hobby.
Mine were curious, but not excited.
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Another game of C&C Ancients with my 5 yr old. He had complete confidence this time and remembered most of what was going on from last week. His center was full of heavy infantry and with 2 well played "Line of Command" cards he was able to drive into my center completely destroying it and beating me yet again :) He says he is really looking forward to playing more especially since I showed him the next scenario has elephants. :o
https://twitter.com/thecommandtent/status/1439718358803492873
Well who does not love Elephants
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Tent, you are so lucky to have a child who is actually interested in your hobby.
Mine were curious, but not excited.
Thanks, I hope I can keep excited about it once the "newness" of it all wears off. I know alot of it is just spending time with dad now but I'll take it for as long as he wants to play. :)