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Author Topic: 1866  (Read 16307 times)

ojsdad

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on: January 29, 2020, 08:11:51 PM
Does anyone have 1866 from Compass Games, or played it.  I'm thinking of getting it.  It's on sale for $55 until Jan 31

https://www.compassgames.com/1866-the-struggle-for-supremacy-in-germany.html

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panzerde

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Reply #1 on: January 29, 2020, 10:12:30 PM

I have it, and have even opened it, but it has yet to make it to the table.


Given the rarity of games on this topic, it's worth getting at that price if you're interested in the period. IIRC, the components are good and I recall the reviews were favorable.

Does anyone have 1866 from Compass Games, or played it.  I'm thinking of getting it.  It's on sale for $55 until Jan 31

https://www.compassgames.com/1866-the-struggle-for-supremacy-in-germany.html

I actually don't really like games.

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bob48

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Reply #2 on: January 30, 2020, 06:07:43 AM
What Doug said, I really am into the period.  Having said that, I'm not a great liker of point-to-point systems, personally.

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besilarius

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Reply #3 on: January 30, 2020, 08:38:42 AM
Agree Bob.  This is a very confusing war.
In re the movement, Moltke was confident of military victory because the Austrians had one, single track, rail system into Bohemia, while the Prussians had something like five double tracked lines into the theater.
However, at the very beginning, he told Von Roon that the winner would be Napoleon III.
As long as Austria kept it's army intact, he felt Napoleon would intervene and demand an end of hostilities before Prussia could win an outright victory. 
The Prussians were actually throwing every delaying tactic at the French Foreign Minister who was trying to deliver an ultimatum through the Koniggratz campaign.
Prussia couldn't face the two major armies and the French would be able to demand, and get, major areas around the Rhine.  This would solidify an alliance between France and Austria aimed at keeping Prussia in check.
Of course, the inept adventurer miscalculated, and his late efforts gained nothing for France.

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panzerde

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Reply #4 on: January 30, 2020, 02:16:13 PM
Of course, the inept adventurer miscalculated, and his late efforts gained nothing for France.


An apt summation of Napoleon III as there ever was.

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bob48

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Reply #5 on: January 30, 2020, 02:28:09 PM

“O Lord God, let me not be disgraced in my old days.”

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'


besilarius

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Reply #6 on: January 30, 2020, 05:04:11 PM
Panzerde, this got me thinking ab out Napoleon III.
I can't decide.  Would you think his greatest mistake was letting Prussia win a total military victory in 1866?
Or, by ignoring centuries of French military policy, letting Piedmont and Cavour unify Italy?
Or His fixation on weakening Austria, to have been his single greatest mistake?

"These things must be done delicately-- or you hurt the spell."  - The Wicked Witch of the West.
"We've got the torpedo damage temporarily shored up, the fires out and soon will have the ship back on an even keel. But I would suggest, sir, that if you have to take any more torpedoes, you take 'em on the starboard side."   Pops Healy, DCA USS Lexington.


bayonetbrant

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Reply #7 on: January 30, 2020, 05:13:15 PM
C'mon, it was obviously his attempted takeover of Mexico!

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BanzaiCat

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Reply #8 on: January 30, 2020, 05:47:43 PM
It's really so ever hard to tell when you people are being facetious or sarcastic.

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bayonetbrant

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Reply #9 on: January 30, 2020, 05:56:57 PM
It's really so ever hard to tell when you people are being facetious or sarcastic.


Really? I thought it was obvious...

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panzerde

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Reply #10 on: January 30, 2020, 06:06:36 PM
Panzerde, this got me thinking ab out Napoleon III.
I can't decide.  Would you think his greatest mistake was letting Prussia win a total military victory in 1866?
Or, by ignoring centuries of French military policy, letting Piedmont and Cavour unify Italy?
Or His fixation on weakening Austria, to have been his single greatest mistake?


As pointless as the attempted imperial ambitions in Mexico were, that was ultimately a sideshow.


I can't completely fault him about the Austria thing. Messing with the Hapsburgs, of all stripes, is a recurrent theme among French regimes for hundreds or years. It wasn't bright, but it's almost something I'm not sure he could have avoided doing.  Having said that I believe his stance vis a vis Austria leads pretty directly to the two other mistakes you mention. 


Allowing the Prussian victory in 1866 probably has the most obvious and immediate consequences. Without the 1866 victory over Austria you don't get the 1870 victory that ultimately unseats Napoleon III. Unified Italy seems to have less immediate negative connotations, but as you observe, there were solid reasons not allowing this was French policy for centuries.


As I say, though, I think this can be attributed to his policy toward Austria. He could have backed off the ancient dynastic struggle, maintained a French hand in Italy and probably, with Austrian help, prevented or delayed Prussian hegemony in Germany. His fixation on Austria led him to miss the real threat to the Second Empire and to fritter away Imperial resources in Italy. So, even though it was somewhat in keeping with his predecessors to oppose Austria I have to see that as the core of his eventual failure. Even the Mexican thing traces back to it.


What's your spin Besilarius? I'll be the first to admit that I'm less well read on the Second Empire than I am a couple of hundred years earlier, so the above might be pretty off base!


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panzerde

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Reply #11 on: January 30, 2020, 06:12:45 PM
It's really so ever hard to tell when you people are being facetious or sarcastic.


This one's real. He really did try to do this. It's the origin of Cinco de Mayo, in fact.


He thought he could take advantage of the US Civil War to install a puppet government in Mexico and establish an Imperial French presence in the Western hemisphere.  The Mexicans turned out to not be down with the plan, and  caused some painful defeats of the French despite being outnumbered and poorly equipped. Once the ACW was over, the Americans made it known they weren't amused either.  We get to whip on Mexico, but Europeans most definitely do not.




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bayonetbrant

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Reply #12 on: January 30, 2020, 07:49:08 PM
Yep, when Joe* Phil Sheridan showed up on the Texas border with about 60,000 battle-hardened Union troops who were in a bad mood because they couldn't go home yet, the French started having second thoughts about their adventurism in Mexico.

The fact that they were getting smacked around a bit by the locals before then certainly didn't help matters at all. Santa Ana (yes, *that* Santa Ana)  changed sides about five times over the course of three years - so much so that his counter in The Cactus Throne is printed with both sides so he can switch back and forth.

It didn't help that the French Imperial expeditionary force included units from about five different nations that didn't particularly like each other so they had no one to count on once the locals decided they didn't enjoy being ruled from afar




















edit:
* thanks (sort of), Mirth
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 11:03:14 AM by bayonetbrant »

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mirth

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Reply #13 on: January 30, 2020, 08:26:43 PM
Yep, when Joe Sheridan showed up on the Texas border with about 60,000 battle-hardened Union troops who were in a bad mood because they couldn't go home yet, the French started having second thoughts about their adventurism in Mexico.

You sure it wasn't Phil Hooker?

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bayonetbrant

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Reply #14 on: January 30, 2020, 08:31:53 PM
It could have been. I thought it was a Sheridan counter in the Cactus Throne game, but they could have been stretching the hypothetical some






Edit:
Bottom center of the green counters



« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 08:35:19 PM by bayonetbrant »

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