Armchair Dragoons Forums
Other Gaming => RPGs & Adventure Gaming => Topic started by: Bison on November 12, 2020, 10:58:35 PM
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Just finished reading through the AD&D 1e Player's Handbook and am a good 1/3 of the way through the Dungeon Masters Guide. It had been years since I read them cover to cover. I truly love Gygax's writing style.
The kids and I sat down at the kitchen table and talked through the 1e Player's Handbook. I outlined the major differences between 1e and 5e. I thought the loss of all the different races, classes, and various restrictions would temper their excitement. However, they actually liked most of the rules and limitations of character development.
We are making characters and starting a 1e campaign this weekend. We will mostly play with rules as written.
Current House Rules:
The armor class adjustment table for weapons is out. I like the concept. It makes weapon choices more relevant but it's hard to explain, i.e. a crossbow has better odds of penetrating plate mail and doing damage than a short bow or thrown dagger. The bonus is versus an armor's base value, not an armor class, and does not really apply to a monster's natural armor. All it ends up doing is bogging down combat and requires a lot of adjudication to make work for little payoff.
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Sounds like fun!
How old are they now? Oldest one is a teenager, right?
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Ah yes...we have entered the teenage years...
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:bigthumb:
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Thanks to Brant's generosity a few years back, the start point for the house campaign is Against the Cult of the Reptile God. I had played the module years and years ago so it will be good to replay. Mostly using it as a starting base to get the campaign off the ground and introduce the 1e mechanics.
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I hope you guys have a good time w/ it!
Games are for playing!
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I have spent the last several weeks re-reading back issues of Dragon, Dungeon, Polyhedron, Imagine, and Strategic Review. First, I am very sad to no longer have most of my physical copies of Dragon and Dungeon. They are truly one of the few periodicals for me that hold up years later for an enjoyable read and practical information. However, I am quite happy to have a complete digital archive.
It's quite striking to read the evolution of Dungeons and Dragons through its various iterations. I must admit the articles and adventures for 3e and later editions made my eyes glaze over. So much work and upkeep for the Dungeon Master to have to do to maintain a campaign. The relatively simple adjudication of earlier editions is so much more manageable and fun. I just believe there is more agency for the players and DM to create the campaign story and individual character actions.
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It's quite striking to read the evolution of Dungeons and Dragons through its various iterations. I must admit the articles and adventures for 3e and later editions made my eyes glaze over. So much work and upkeep for the Dungeon Master to have to do to maintain a campaign. The relatively simple adjudication of earlier editions is so much more manageable and fun. I just believe there is more agency for the players and DM to create the campaign story and individual character actions.
Yep, I find great irony in the fact that nouveau role-players complain about how wargame-y the original RPGs were (D&D, T&T, C&S, RQ, Trav) but they need 4 books and 11 charts to adjudicate a 3-step action just to determine initiative.
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There are a couple of changes in the system I think work easier. Saving throws and ascending armor class are much easier to explain for example. However, the growth in skills and checks to cover everything is too much for me. It's like every action is trying to calculate unarmed combat in 1e.
I was reading through Unearthed Arcana and Oriental Adventures and the beginning of skills in D&D really starts there. However, they are nothing compared to the full sheet lists of skills in the more recent editions.
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I decided to order a set of POD core books plus Unearthed Arcana from dmsguild. My poor books were beaten up 40 years ago so hoping to preserve them a little and use the POD books for the regular use table copies.
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I received my first two POD books, the players handbook and the monster manual, today. I was allowed to glance through them but now have to wait till Xmas and for the other books to arrive. Other than the cover art, I am very happy with the print quality. I will need to perhaps order one more PHB for table use. Still have the DMG and UA coming in hardback and a paperback copy of fiend folio. I do wish all the core books were available for POD in hardback but I'll have to wait.
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I've been torn on whether or not I want additional copies of my old ADD1E books or not.
What's wrong with the covers? Printing isn't as good? Or the material isn't what you wanted?
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The covers are a perfectly functional scanned copy of the 2013 reprint (I still kick myself in the backside I didn't just get all reprints). The cover art is a bit blurry which fortunately is not the case with the art and text inside. Anyway, I guess it would be nice if WotC offered an option to select cover options.
I ordered the higher grade paper quality on the hardbacks and the Fiend Folio is standard paper and softcover. I am looking forward to seeing the quality difference. I also have a set of 2e paperback core rulebooks coming. Unfortunately, WotC is a bit hit and miss on what they offer on PoD and hard or soft back cover options. I really, really want to order a copy of the various B/X editions but only the Rules Cyclopedia is an option.
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The Rules Cyclopedia is a superior version of those rules, anyway, since it cleans up a lot of the verbiage from earlier books, to make sure there's no inconsistencies remaining from earlier versions (like unarmed combat).
If you don't like the Mystic (essentially the 1ed monk reborn) then just ignore it and play on.
If you're wanting the earlier books for the nostalgia factor, then I totally get it. But if you're wanting a set of rules to just play with, the RC is going to cover all your bases for you.
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I have a copy of the Rules Cyclopedia and another table copy would be nice.
However, I think Mentzer’s box sets in particular the red and blue boxes are one of if not the best products ever made to teach D&D. The limited choices initially in the red box for spells, equipment, monsters and simple “optional” rules are great for new or younger gamers.
Also I’m a D&D nerd and I like having all the various rules and books for reading and idea generation.
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However, I think Mentzer’s box sets in particular the red and blue boxes are one of if not the best products ever made to teach D&D. The limited choices initially in the red box for spells, equipment, monsters and simple “optional” rules are great for new or younger gamers.
I agree with this completely. :)
Also I’m a D&D nerd and I like having all the various rules and books for reading and idea generation.
I somehow agree with this even more ;D
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Also I’m a D&D nerd and I like having all the various rules and books for reading and idea generation.
I somehow agree with this even more ;D
I have yet to meet a D&D fan who *doesn't* feel this way. :D
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Ok, I am really happy with the POD books so far. I hope they hold up well over the long term. The real plus is I can put my Unearthed Arcana original book up and use my POD version without having to worry if the binding falls apart.
*I have not included Unearthed Arcana rules into my campaign yet. I am not sure I like the Cavalier and Barbarian class balance versus the original class design or weapon specialization.*
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I received my latest POD from dmsguild.com. Slight damage to the corner of one of the books during shipping but otherwise the print quality is fantastic. I really hope Wizards makes more of the early D&D products available for POD. I admit I would totally pay for reprints of Dragon and Dungeon magazines too. Highly recommend the service for anyone who enjoys having books rather than digital things at the table.
Return to the Borderlands. It's actually a 2e AD&D module but requires almost no work to use with 1e AD&D rules.
Return of the Slave Lords. I missed out on the whole reprint of books a decade ago. However, I got this softcover reprint for a very affordable cost.
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EDIT: never mind, they found someone. (Ironically, someone else I know!)
https://twitter.com/XOofXOs/status/1502440272826933251
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Dragon Lance is an interesting setting. There was a period in TSR's history when their developers were really exploring unique settings. Then came Forgotten Realms and most everything else got left behind.
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Dragon Lance is an interesting setting. There was a period in TSR's history when their developers were really exploring unique settings. Then came Forgotten Realms and most everything else got left behind.
I was never a fan of the Dragonlance setting overall BUT, I did like the bringing in of the Draconians. I reskinned them for many 5e campaigns.
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Dragon Lance is an interesting setting. There was a period in TSR's history when their developers were really exploring unique settings. Then came Forgotten Realms and most everything else got left behind.
Absolutely adored Dragonlance! Never played the campaign modules, although I think I have the first three or four of them.
I hear what you're saying about Forgotten Realms. Ed Greenwood had a hit with all the stuff he was feeding Dragon mag. The more they printed, the more I wanted to know. I thought it was an excellent setting in the first FR box set they put out. Still enough places to adventure in without a lot of set in stone history to contend with. Then Salvatore and D'Rizzt blew up and the TSR book department went into overdrive with stories from Faerun. THAT'S when it seemed like they stopped with the 'unique settings.' At least to me.
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I run my campaigns in Greyhawk.
Dragon Lance is an interesting setting. There was a period in TSR's history when their developers were really exploring unique settings. Then came Forgotten Realms and most everything else got left behind.
I was never a fan of the Dragonlance setting overall BUT, I did like the bringing in of the Draconians. I reskinned them for many 5e campaigns.
Draconians! I totally forgot about them. How are you distinguishing them from dragonborn?
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Absolutely adored Dragonlance! Never played the campaign modules, although I think I have the first three or four of them.
I hear what you're saying about Forgotten Realms. Ed Greenwood had a hit with all the stuff he was feeding Dragon mag. The more they printed, the more I wanted to know. I thought it was an excellent setting in the first FR box set they put out. Still enough places to adventure in without a lot of set in stone history to contend with. Then Salvatore and D'Rizzt blew up and the TSR book department went into overdrive with stories from Faerun. THAT'S when it seemed like they stopped with the 'unique settings.' At least to me.
I run my campaign in Greyhawk but do borrow material from other campaign settings. When TSR was transitioning from 1e to 2e is the period I recall having the greatest output of new campaign settings. Ravenloft, Dragonlance, Spelljammer, Planescape...
There is no question you are correct D'Rizzt and company shifted the primary focus to Forgotten Realms. Wizards did try to move away from it in later additions as the default setting developing ones like Ebberron. Now they still develop for some old settings like Ravenloft and develop new ones set in the Magic the Gathering IP. However, I think you make a great point about the early campaign settings being more of a blank slate at least for 1e.
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Dragonlance was an attempt to create a dragon-centric setting, as none of the other current ones at that time had dragons front and center.
Forgotten Realms was deemed necessary for them to sideline Greyhawk and get out of paying any more royalties to Gygax than they had to. They kept publishing the already– or nearly–done Greyhawk stuff to fulfill some contractual obligations (and to insulate themselves from any Gygax lawsuits of "you guys are just doing it to keep me from getting paid")
They didn't want to port over Mystara as they were afraid that too many AD&D players would see it as the "basic" setting and not go for it.
Ravenloft was just an outgrowth of the gothic horror idea that was never really intended to grow like that; it wasn't planned beyond that first module.
Dark Sun & Birthright were trying to experiment with some new concepts, and Spelljammer was a ham-handed attempt to knit them together.
Eberron was created from a contest, where WotC was looking for a new world to make the centerpiece of the 3e launch. They specifically wanted something different than the "usual" but still could contain all the canonical races / classes (which really limited the "different"). So they basically got a reskinned Earthdawn.
But as MD noted, FR got more/better novel support, especially since they assigned a bunch of their better writers to that world, and that really helped it blow up.
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Good breakdown.
I always preferred the more sword and sorcery setting of Greyhawk to the high fantasy setting of Forgotten Realms. I think it's due to the concept I have that magic is mysterious and a bit scary to the normal population compared to the current D&D setting where everyone and everything is magical.
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I had one of the Greyhawk box sets (since misplaced or taken) and I loved the setting, too. Gygax did a great job setting up his backstory and it all seemed to make a great amount of sense. Once they started fading that, I had hoped Mystara would be next, right alongside FR. But, I think brant has the right of it, too many players maybe would have looked at it as the 'basic' setting.
What I really liked about 1st Ed. was that there was no mention of ANY setting in the PHB or the DMG. Yeah, there was a list of books & myths that had inspired Gygax and co., but, they were pushing you to imagine a world rather than push a premade, official, TSR world. And I liked that. Of course, once I found out what kind of a PITA building everything from scratch was, I sure was glad to see somebody had done the work for me ;)
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Not only that, but a lot of the modules that were later retcon'ed into Greyhawk were originally a bunch of standalones created for convention tournament play
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I still own the World of Greyhawk box set. It has one of the greatest world maps ever produced. I got a POD of World of Greyhawk which is an earlier version of the box set. It has much more world information like season names, holidays, money, brief descriptions of a lot of the geography, politics, and kingdom structures.
The hardcover Greyhawk Adventures book is a bit odd in some regards because it was compiled and written by James Ward and not Gary. Also, it was one of the last books published as TSR was phasing out 1e for 2e so it tries to do a little from columns A and B.
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Speaking of Greyhawk, I picked this up 30+ years ago and never had anyone to play it with. You guys see this before?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhawk_Wars_(game)
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I run my campaigns in Greyhawk. Dragon Lance is an interesting setting. There was a period in TSR's history when their developers were really exploring unique settings. Then came Forgotten Realms and most everything else got left behind.
I was never a fan of the Dragonlance setting overall BUT, I did like the bringing in of the Draconians. I reskinned them for many 5e campaigns.
Draconians! I totally forgot about them. How are you distinguishing them from dragonborn?
I use the HarnWorld setting as my base so there is not a dragonborn playable race. I use a concept of Draconians from the "Kang's Regiment", two book series as extremely rare NPCs encroaching from somewhere across the western "ocean". Most of those encountered are only small scouting parties.
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Speaking of Greyhawk, I picked this up 30+ years ago and never had anyone to play it with. You guys see this before?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhawk_Wars_(game)
I used to have Greyhawk Wars! I am not sure how it holds up now but I loved setting up the map and counters to solo play the game.
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I use the HarnWorld setting as my base so there is not a dragonborn playable race. I use a concept of Draconians from the "Kang's Regiment", two book series as extremely rare NPCs encroaching from somewhere across the western "ocean". Most of those encountered are only small scouting parties.
Never heard of Harn World. I will have to look it up. Really like the idea of a unique and rare race to add a bit of flavor and suspense to the game. I need to consider this for my campaign.
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Tonight's campaign game featured an elusive and mischievous leprechaun who lured the party into a magical portal beneath a pool of swirling rainbow-colored oil. They successfully navigated the tricks and managed to trap the leprechaun. He traded a small sack of gems, a potion of levitation, and a ring of fire resistance for his freedom. It was a lot of silly fun which my older daughters really enjoyed. The wife was tired and mostly confused about the whole affair. She kept asking "I thought we came into the woods to help the Druid gather some mistletoe?" The boys enjoyed it and had some good laughs but were very disappointed there were no monsters to fight...we ended up doing a little battle with some skeletons after the game session to make matters right. :)
Anyway, I am pretty sure this is the first adventure I have certainly DM'd and as far as I can remember played where the main protagonist was a leprechaun. However, Saint Patrick's day is upcoming and the boys and I have been constructing leprechaun traps all weekend. So a seasonal adventure was quite appropriate.
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Speaking of Greyhawk, I picked this up 30+ years ago and never had anyone to play it with. You guys see this before?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhawk_Wars_(game)
I used to have Greyhawk Wars! I am not sure how it holds up now but I loved setting up the map and counters to solo play the game.
Same, I used to have it as well. it was a lot of fun...I played it solo but also played it with a large group of friends. I remember they didn't like it as much but thought it was okay (blasphemy!).
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I finally completed my collection of hardcover books for 1e. I found a good condition copy of Manual of the Planes on Ebay several weeks ago and pulled the trigger. I had been searching at used book stores for several years with no success. This is the very first thing I have ever purchased off of Ebay so I also have that going for me. :D
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:bigthumb:
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If you're looking for Greyhawk content, the Oerth Journals are all available to download the PDFs for free
https://greyhawkonline.com/oerthjournal/
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Nice! Thanks for the link.
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If I remember correctly, there is quite a bit of Living Greyhawk stuff out there online, most for free.
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If I remember correctly, there is quite a bit of Living Greyhawk stuff out there online, most for free.
There is a lot. It's not quite as much as there is for Mystara but it is a lot
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We resumed the family campaign today. It had been a couple of months since the last game. The start was a bit rocky getting the party moving again but it got there and did what it needed to do. Set up the party for the next session. I gave them enough XP for the last couple of adventures to make sure everyone's character will be 2nd level. The magic users needed the boost to a second spell slot and the thief becomes a little better at doing the thief skills that the party will need going into the first big dungeon of the campaign. And the 5-year-olds got to get into the act. They are jointly playing the cleric who has no stats just a mace to fight with and a couple of spells to cure light wounds and bless.
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^ Nice. Sounds pretty fun, despite the inevitable hiccups that occur when trying corral everyone after a couple months (especially younger ones). :bigthumb:
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It's madness! Once we get into the groove, we have a lot of fun. But getting to that point can be a chaotic affair.