"battlefield logistics" in tactical games

[bayonetbrant]

I know the World at War series has a check to see if an AT unit runs out of ATGMs, but I don't know that I've ever seen ammo expended in ASL, LNLT, Band of Brothers, etc.

How does tank ammo expenditure work in MBT?  Do they only count the ready rack, or do they count the semi-ready, too?

The M1 officially carries 40 rounds, but 6 of them are stored in the hull and you can get to them w/o rotating the turret over the back deck and lining up the gap in the turret basket with the hull storage.  It's not like you've got 40 rounds ready to blast.

Most of them have a counter for a satchel charge or a panzerfaust or other one-shot weapons.  What about mortar ammo?  reloadable bazookas?


What games handle tactical battlefield logistics well, and which ones suck?


(note, this is mostly about ammo expenditure, b/c it's unlikely a tank is going to run out of gas in the time that it takes for one ASL battle to take place; ditto food & water)

[thecommandtent]

I don't have any games I know of that have this.  However, I wonder with how describe it does it ever cross the line to being an RPG when you track ammo, food, water etc. Or are you talking about tracking for a unit and not man to man.

[bayonetbrant]

At the "counter" level, you're talking about squads/half-squads and indiv vehicles.

I would disagree with your characterization that you're crossing the line into a role playing game just because you're tracking individual people. One of the hallmarks of the RPG world is the campaign model That accounts for longevity of the characters and changes in their abilities over time. I'm not sure that tracking ammo any specific firefight crosses that threshold

[mirth]

It would be a nightmare from a gameplay standpoint. I would not want to spend the time tracking rounds spent. Would bog down any game.

[bbmike]

This is one of the things I noticed while play McPherson's Ridge. Whenever artillery rolls a '1' when resolving artillery fire, you roll again. On a roll of '1' or '2' the unit is out of ammo and is removed from the game.

[mirth]

This is one of the things I noticed while play McPherson's Ridge. Whenever artillery rolls a '1' when resolving artillery fire, you roll again. On a roll of '1' or '2' the unit is out of ammo and is removed from the game.

I've played plenty of games with low ammo rules for artillery. That's a lot different (and simpler) than tracking ammo used by each unit.

[bbmike]

Yeah, I agree. If you're going to have to track ammo that's about the only way I would want to do it.

[mirth]

Logistics Tracking: The Game

[besilarius]

The very old miniatures rules, Tractics, had you track expenditure of ammo and the type.
Recall some friends were playing a bocage scenario.  The Brits got a pair of rocket equipped Typhoons (callsign Lime Juice).
The fallschirm jagers had a dual 88.
The 88 loaded AA to keep the Typhoons at arm's length so the Brits gambled on that and speed across an open area before it could loAd an AT round.

[mirth]

The very old miniatures rules, Tractics, had you track expenditure of ammo and the type.
Recall some friends were playing a bocage scenario.  The Brits got a pair of rocket equipped Typhoons (callsign Lime Juice).
The fallschirm jagers had a dual 88.
The 88 loaded AA to keep the Typhoons at arm's length so the Brits gambled on that and speed across an open area before it could loAd an AT round.

I hate gamey bullshit like that.

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

For LnL Tactical, only some weapons run out if ammo.  ATGMs, 40mm grenades for NATO infantry, claymore mines, satchel charges, and captured support weapons are the only ones that can run out normally.  Scenario specific rules can introduce ammo shortages.  I recall seeing some of those for the Soviets in certain WWII scenarios.

[bayonetbrant]

I wasn't thinking anything like tracking bullet-by-bullet for everyone in the fight.

But maybe something like "after turn 6, there's a chance of running out of ammo on a roll of ___"

But also wondering if there are any other (tactical) games with supply rules for fuel, or water, or something similar

I wouldn't see them as necessary, which is why I'm not surprised that no one has any come to mind

[mirth]

Board wargames have all sorts of ways of handling logistics. Tactical level games don't get into is much because it really isn't that interesting and it is a pain to track other than saying "low on ammo" and reducing combat values.

[bayonetbrant]

Which is why I wasn't necessarily advocating for it, but wondering what games tried to do it

[Silent Disapproval Robot]

Bomber Command and Duel in the Dark track fuel for nightfighters.  Wings of Glory has optional rules for fuel but nobody uses them because they're tedious.