Armchair Dragoons Forums
Wargaming => The Modern World => Topic started by: tuna on September 10, 2019, 08:18:28 PM
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Ordered Holland 44 today.. Thanks for all the pushing and prodding! :bigthumb:
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Download the rules from GMT and start reading!
:bigthumb:
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Then we can play on VASSAL and try to forget that we just shelled out for physical copies (and fancy maps)!
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Ordered Holland 44 today.. Thanks for all the pushing and prodding! :bigthumb:
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Welcome to the club, Tuna!
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Welcome to the club, Tuna!
+1! Go ahead and order the extra shelves now. :bigthumb:
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Its an excellent game, and a very good system - better start looking for copies of Normandy '44 and Ardennes '44 as well :-)
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I've got that and Ardennes 44. Neither is even punched at the moment.
I did want Normandy 44 but it's just too big map wise.
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JD, Normandy '44 only has a single map - Ardennes '44 has 2 maps.
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I know Ardennes has but they fit (sort of with some manipulation) in my boardgame cover thingyamybob.
As for Normandy, I saw this and thought it was several maps
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/1175814/battle-normandy
Even if it's a single map, there's NOWHERE I could lay that bad boy out :-\
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Is that BIG map from the other box game he has showing there..."The Battle for Normandy"?
So is the Normandy '44 map the little one up the right of that image?
It IS!
I might actually pickup Normandy 44 now because it was that massive map that put me off
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ONE of us, Tuna! :)
Holland '44 is a good-looking game. It's one of my many unpunched ones that I want to eventually get to! :bigthumb:
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ONE of us, Tuna! :)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQGjhiX3eL371O06QyrOfjlBbLrIh0PV70vBfCCJj8kotzzK3iB)
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it was that massive map that put me off
I like big maps and I can not lie
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it was that massive map that put me off
I like big maps and I can not lie
will be surrounded by them 'til I die
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it was that massive map that put me off
I like big maps and I can not lie
will be surrounded by them 'til I die
'cause the more they make the more I buy
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it was that massive map that put me off
I like big maps and I can not lie
will be surrounded by them 'til I die
'cause the more they make the more I buy
"Don't buy more games?" I say "fie"
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Great game series. I need GMT to reprint France 40 to round out the collection.
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Stalingrad '42 is in the works................
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-715-stalingrad-42.aspx
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Stalingrad '42 is in the works................
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-715-stalingrad-42.aspx
Whoa, it's at the printer. Nice! This is one of my P500 orders...the other being Mr. President.
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Stalingrad '42 is in the works................
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-715-stalingrad-42.aspx (https://www.gmtgames.com/p-715-stalingrad-42.aspx)
That's a must buy. I like the scope and the maps look awesome.
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Great game series. I need GMT to reprint France 40 to round out the collection.
I'll have to dig out my copy and clip the counters
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I’d forgot about Stalingrad 42.
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You'd need one big ass table for that one!
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I’d forgot about Stalingrad 42.
Just as well I jogged your memory then, innit? :D
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Download the rules from GMT and start reading!
:bigthumb:
Not to forget this:
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/gmtwebsiteassets/Holland44/Holland44+Errata_Nov27-2017.pdf
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Stalingrad '42 is in the works................
https://www.gmtgames.com/p-715-stalingrad-42.aspx (https://www.gmtgames.com/p-715-stalingrad-42.aspx)
That's awesome, I love it when designers tackle under-represented topics.
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Whilst on one hand, I agree with you; I would point out that, if you are familiar with the system, you will recognise that no previous game on the subject (that I'm aware of) has represented it in quite this way.
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I would like to see some North Africa and Italian campaigns. A good Burma campaign would be interesting too. But I like the series and Stalingrad is a must campaign for any WW2 series IMO.
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I’d forgot about Stalingrad 42.
Just as well I jogged your memory then, innit? :D
Quite.
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Yep - I would like to see the system transported to NA.
Few games exist about the Burma campaign - but there is one in the OCS games from MMP,:
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1585/burma
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Whilst on one hand, I agree with you; I would point out that, if you are familiar with the system, you will recognise that no previous game on the subject (that I'm aware of) has represented it in quite this way.
You're probably right, I'm just in a mood right now because there are too many idiots in this town where I live
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Any good videos of the Combat system basics, even if from another series (is it sort of the same on all of them)?
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I haven't watched this yet, but it's in my list. Maybe it'll help
Jesus...I've just watched this guy for 5 minutes and he lost 3 bridges that he approached (rolls of 6 each time!!) Unlucky or what.
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Yep - it can happen.
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Really want to play Holland '44, but think I'll wait for Stalingrad '42 to learn the system. I've been anticipating S'42 for a while now but damn, H'44 looks awful purty...
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Any good videos of the Combat system basics, even if from another series (is it sort of the same on all of them)?
There are a few on youtube, and yes, the basic system is the same for all the games.
Its probably worth downloading the Vassal mod as well. I've played it a bit on Vassal and its a well done mod.
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We should get a multiplayer game going.
Allies are easy to break into sections - British/Polish Airborne, XXXCorps, 82nd Airborne, 101st Airborne.
Germans might be a bit harder - maybe defenses against each of the Allies sections.
Could even go one further and make it all double blind with a Ref... I'd be willing to ref.
Could be fun.
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Hmm. Worth thinking about :bigthumb:
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Interesting. As long as there's no weak-ass French cavalry involved, I'd be interested.
Are you talking VASSAL or TTS?
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I don't have TTS, but I do have Vassal. I'm not sure if there is a TTS mod?
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VASSAL. We could do it PBEM.
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I don't have TTS, but I do have Vassal. I'm not sure if there is a TTS mod?
Heh, good point, guess I could have looked that up myself... ;D
There are some GMT games for TTS, but I don't see Holland '44.
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VASSAL. We could do it PBEM.
Very true. First, we need for people to get a grasp on the rules.
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Rules? Pffft...we don't need those. I get to be Michael Caine!
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Playing this way is actually easier to learn the rules because you only need to know what directly affects your sector of the map.
I'm involved in a MP PBEM game of Bloody April that being run this way. I have control of one flight and that's all I have to worry about for the rules. The Ref is handling all the game mechanics so I just need to know how to fly and fight.
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.................you was only supposed to blow the bloody bridge up.....................
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Any good videos of the Combat system basics, even if from another series (is it sort of the same on all of them)?
There are a few on youtube, and yes, the basic system is the same for all the games.
Its probably worth downloading the Vassal mod as well. I've played it a bit on Vassal and its a well done mod.
I've watched a few, but none that I've seen so far actually 'explain' the combat system for a total noob. That's why I was wondering if there was one that did that, that CRT table looks like Russian to me!
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Interesting. As long as there's no weak-ass French cavalry involved, I'd be interested.
Are you talking VASSAL or TTS?
TTS SNF!!!.. I don't know of any mod for TTS.. is there one?
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Well maybe I'll finally have to learn how to make a TTS module.... :doh:
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Well maybe I'll finally have to learn how to make a TTS module.... :doh:
Too bad more of these companies didn't make 'official' versions.. the Scythe one is awesome!
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I'm finding the ZOC and ZOC bonds rather confusing
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I'm finding the ZOC and ZOC bonds rather confusing
That is the most difficult thing to grasp in this game, at least for me. They are different enough from other games that it’s hard for it to stick in my mind.
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I'm finding the ZOC and ZOC bonds rather confusing
That is the most difficult thing to grasp in this game, at least for me. They are different enough from other games that it’s hard for it to stick in my mind.
From the PDF, I'm the whole thing confusing!
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I'm finding the ZOC and ZOC bonds rather confusing
ZoCs are one of those things I can't keep straight from one game to another - do I pay moving in? moving out? both? can I move zoc to zoc? How does supply work through ZoCs?
Every game has a slightly different way of implementing them and it's a PITA to keep the rules straight in my brain.
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lol, it 'arrived' on Friday, still have not opened it yet, I'm too scared! Maybe it will be like one of those games I bought in a Steam Sale, you know, never gets played. :2funny:
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I've punched mine and clipped the corners. Now I've just got to go through the rules and book the table for a month 😂
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lol, it 'arrived' on Friday, still have not opened it yet, I'm too scared! Maybe it will be like one of those games I bought in a Steam Sale, you know, never gets played. :2funny:
You do know you're not actually supposed to play these games...
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You guys have encouraged me to clip my copy
(https://i.imgur.com/OF8uYbV.jpg)
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Lovely :-)
Mind you, Normandy '44 is an exceptionally good game, IMHO.
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lol, it 'arrived' on Friday, still have not opened it yet, I'm too scared! Maybe it will be like one of those games I bought in a Steam Sale, you know, never gets played. :2funny:
You do know you're not actually supposed to play these games...
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/e5fe1e3b040779761983fa43152e2e5c/tenor.gif?itemid=9789067)
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You guys have encouraged me to clip my copy
(https://i.imgur.com/OF8uYbV.jpg)
send it to me when you're done, and I'll send you mine! :P
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You wouldn't say that if you knew how much he charges per clip...............
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You guys have encouraged me to clip my copy
(https://i.imgur.com/OF8uYbV.jpg)
What is the radius of your clipper? 2.5 or 3mm?
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You guys so winding "you know who" up by reposting clipped counters.
As for Normandy '44, it's selling for way too much. There's only 3 sellers on BGG. I contacted a Spanish guy on BGG because he was selling his for 45 euros, but he's not got back to me. Other than him, I see it for £300+ around.
It's available for P500 for $50, but it's not ready and pairing would be a huge amount from GMT. I would like to buy it as I have Ardennes and Holland
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What is the radius of your clipper? 2.5 or 3mm?
2.5
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You guys have encouraged me to clip my copy
What is the radius of your clipper? 2.5 or 3mm?
What do you mean? African or European clips?
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You wouldn't say that if you knew how much he charges per clip...............
I could have been a heckuva mohel
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You guys so winding "you know who" up by reposting clipped counters.
As for Normandy '44, it's selling for way too much. There's only 3 sellers on BGG. I contacted a Spanish guy on BGG because he was selling his for 45 euros, but he's not got back to me. Other than him, I see it for £300+ around.
It's available for P500 for $50, but it's not ready and pairing would be a huge amount from GMT. I would like to buy it as I have Ardennes and Holland
Wargamers European Market Place - this is a FB group - although I know a lot of people won't use FB - but just thought I'd mention it.
And its worth checking here;
http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?8@@.1dd37ede
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I got Bawb yelling at me on Steam! :bigthumb:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48739298587_31feb76efd_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hfVDqg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48739118221_a8da35bf9b_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hfUHNv)
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:whistle:
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it's not like you don't have time during Pats-'Fins to work on punching & sorting the game
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....and reading the rules...................
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But the box is way over there!
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it's not like you don't have time during Pats-'Fins to work on punching & sorting the game
Pats-Finns? Is that something new from Compass?
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Jeez now Amazon's sending me emails about Ardennes 44!
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Jeez now Amazon's sending me emails about Ardennes 44!
Welcome to my world
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Mwhahahaha!
Still not sure which I prefer; Ardennes '44 or Bitter Woods.
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it's not like you don't have time during Pats-'Fins to work on punching & sorting the game
Pats-Finns? Is that something new from Compass?
"something... something... Karelian Peninsula... something... "
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What is the radius of your clipper? 2.5 or 3mm?
2.5
I knew yours was bigger than mine.
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What is the radius of your clipper? 2.5 or 3mm?
2.5
I knew yours was bigger than mine.
TMI
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What is the radius of your clipper? 2.5 or 3mm?
2.5
I knew yours was bigger than mine.
I'm seriously considering by the 2mm and 3mm just to round out my collection.
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You should ask Barthheart which one he recommends.
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I like my 2mm. I've used it on 1/2 inch and 5/8 inch counters. What would you use the 3mm for? That seems big.
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I like my 2mm. I've used it on 1/2 inch and 5/8 inch counters. What would you use the 3mm for? That seems big.
I can only guess on some of the large counters. For the standard half-inch or 3/4 inch counter, the 2.5mm trimmer is fine.
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You should ask Barthheart which one he recommends.
0 mm.... :waiting:
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LOL
The 3mm is just fine, even with smaller/older counters.
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My solution: Buy all three sizes. Then keep the clippers in their packaging because, you know, the games are all still sealed.
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LOL
The 3mm is just fine, even with smaller/older counters.
that's what she said
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My solution: Buy all three sizes. Then keep the clippers in their packaging because, you know, the games are all still sealed.
:hehe:
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What is the radius of your clipper? 2.5 or 3mm?
2.5
I knew yours was bigger than mine.
I'm seriously considering by the 2mm and 3mm just to round out my collection.
I saw what you did there!
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LOL
The 3mm is just fine, even with smaller/older counters.
that's what she said
as soon as I typed that I knew it would invite input from the peanut gallery
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I'll have to give up on my Normandy '44...that Spanish guy on BGG isn't answering.
I'll have to keep an eye out for when the third edition is almost ready.
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Did you look at those links I gave you?
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Sausage links?
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Sausage links?
your first thought is always the sausage, innit?
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breakfast sausage, yes. Your el sicko reference, no.
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Did you look at those links I gave you?
I did but I thought I'd tripped back to 1980 :2funny:
The page was a mess. I wasn't sure what to do, but when I got to the page I searched for Normandy '44 and it didn't bring back anything (just the page mind).
I'll give it another look.
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Ah well, not to worry - I was just trying to help..................................you spend money :-)
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Ah well, not to worry - I was just trying to help..................................you spend money :-)
I did go back and checked it out (not the FB one as I don't do FB).
There were some offers on there. The most recent (available and not so costly) was June/July 2018...I might get in touch with him - see if it's still available. There was an option there for $85 and more recent (this year) - but it is $85 and as all the costs are in $, it means there's going to be considerable postage costs.
Thanks for the links - I didn't say it before, but it should go without saying that any help was absolutely appreciated. I was just shocked at the consim page...it was like time travel ;D
The one "possibly" available for last year was the 1st edition - I don't know that I want a 1st edition. I think I'll wait 'till the 3rd edition is out
Thank you all the same.
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LOL - yeah, CSW can be a bit..................strange.
Actually, I think you will find that there is no difference, and that its actually not a 3rd edition as such, just a 3rd printing, and it is the same as the '1st' edition'.
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I don't think CONSIM has changed their format since the days of the 1200-baud modem. ;D
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I don't think CONSIM has changed their format since the days of the 1200-baud modem. ;D
I actually have one of those for my C128. I wonder if I could surf CSW with it. Hmmm... anyone known a good dial-up ISP?
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Netscape Navigator.
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Too fancy. :(
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I don't think CONSIM has changed their format since the days of the 1200-baud modem. ;D
I actually have one of those for my C128. I wonder if I could surf CSW with it. Hmmm... anyone known a good dial-up ISP?
I think I have some AOL CDs around here somewhere.
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LOL - yeah, CSW can be a bit..................strange.
Actually, I think you will find that there is no difference, and that its actually not a 3rd edition as such, just a 3rd printing, and it is the same as the '1st' edition'.
That is indeed worth knowing - thanks.
I was making assumptions on other games where later editions were better - mounted boards, clearer rule set, errata being in the manual as opposed to being additions.
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In this case, its a 3rd printing, and not a 3rd edition. You can also get a mounted map for it - cost extra, of course ;)
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I don't think CONSIM has changed their format since the days of the 1200-baud modem. ;D
I actually have one of those for my C128. I wonder if I could surf CSW with it. Hmmm... anyone known a good dial-up ISP?
I think I have some AOL CDs around here somewhere.
If you can't find them there's billions in the landfills around the nation.
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their shiny sides are also good for scaring away woodpeckers from your house if you string them up in a mobile.
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..European or African woodpeckers?
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Are you suggesting AOL CDs migrate?
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Only if unladen
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I am so very confused with the rules in this game. I'm only at page 9 - Combat Modifiers.
The first section of those rules are about halving attack values and doubling defense values and rounding up. First off, the only part up to this point in the rules at the moment about halving attack values and doubling defence values are that are when attacking across an intact bridge. It seems performing a river crossing/assault does not encompass this halving and doubling rule - is that correct?
Second, after the First section on Combat Modifiers, the section talks about only the first unit (Lead Formation) being able to attack at full value and the rest fighting at half their printed value. So are they halved again?
Honestly, reading these rules is going to make going back to LnL a doddle. :D
I really, really, really want to like this game and get it on the board...I'm currently reading a book on Op Market Garden...but the rules!! I haven't even gotten to the armour shift part yet.
Bob - you've played this game. If you have any ideas on how to read the rules and get them to stay in my head and make sense, I'm all ears.
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Its not the easiest system to master, but what I found was that there are examples of play in the rule book which are a big help - just go through then carefully, it all does make sense. Also worth looking at the BGG forum, as that can help to answer some questions.
I'm deep into the Horse & Musket games at the moment, but I will dig out the rules and go through them again as it been a while since I played. I will try and assist you if I can.
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Don't go mixing up rulesets...it could be awful messy when you get to a game of Horse and Musket.
Going to the example is exactly what I was looking for. I'll go through the example then the rules - perhaps seeing them in action and then seeing the rule could help.
Thank you
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Play along with the play though that starts on page 26. I mean actual setup the game and move the pieces and follow the combats exactly as in the play through for the first couple of turns.
Doing this and reading the rules helped me.
Also the summary of rules on page 35-36 and the sequence of play on the back cover of the rule book help when you need to look stuff up.
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Yep, that is good advice. There are also some youtube vids which you may find helpful.
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lol. I still haven't opened it yet, this was a very busy weekend. I did download some program some guy wrote last week, that shows how the battle should resolve? I think that might help demonstrate what is going on too.. Thanks for all the suggestions.
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Play along with the play though that starts on page 26. I mean actual setup the game and move the pieces and follow the combats exactly as in the play through for the first couple of turns.
Doing this and reading the rules helped me.
Also the summary of rules on page 35-36 and the sequence of play on the back cover of the rule book help when you need to look stuff up.
I will do exactly this. Thanks
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Yep, that is good advice. There are also some youtube vids which you may find helpful.
I did link to one in this thread - but I haven't actually got round to it yet. I thought I'd read the manual first but as that isn't working out great, I will look them up again.
It's not that the manual is confusing. On the contrary it's laid out very well so far - but there are some rather complicated mechanics in this game I've never come across before.
I really want to learn it though because the mechanics are similar to the other games in the line and I'd really like to play those also.
I need to hurry up too because Storming the Gap will be here before I know it. :ROFL:
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I haven't watched this yet, but it's in my list. Maybe it'll help
Jesus...I've just watched this guy for 5 minutes and he lost 3 bridges that he approached (rolls of 6 each time!!) Unlucky or what.
Actually looking at the rules, it's incredibly easy to blow the bridges...almost a given. Die rolls above 2 will blow a bridge. For some reason I thought it wouldn't be so easy...I guess after watching the film and seeing so few blown.
The only modifier is -1 on the first turn. I guess that makes it imperative to try and capture the bridges on the 1st turn.
Also - in game, Arnhem, Nijmegen and Westervoort can never be blown. Oh - and Grave can't be blown on turn 1 - so get yer skates on!
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I think you have to bear in mind that the Germans had prepared all these bridges for demolition well beforehand, and they all had guard detachments in place to do so once they were given the order.
If you want a good book on the subject, I would recommend 'A magnificent Disaster' by David Bennett.
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Yeah I think I'm proper screwed over by the movie. IIRC only the bridge at Grave (or was it Son) was blown
Thanks for the book tip. I've only read Cornelius Ryan and more recently Anthony Beevor
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The Ryan book is rather dated now, but Beevor's book is good, as are all of his.
The book above takes advantage of more material that has been made available in recent years; another very good book on the subject is 'The Devils Birthday' by Geoffrey Powell, and another obvious one is 'A Drop Too Many' by Maj, Gen.John Frost.
For me, the big unsung hero of the battle was Stanislaw Sosabowski, commander of the Polish Brigade, he seems to have been one of the few people who really understood what was going on and what needed to be done. Its a great shame that his part, and that of his men was unjustly played down by the British Command, and he was even made a scapegoat.
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AFA Beevor goes, he has two Arnhem books listed at amazon:
Arnhem: The Battle for the Bridges, 1944 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0670918660/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A22U6FDAII1DYF&psc=1): by Anthony Beevor
and
The Battle of Arnhem: The Deadliest Airborne Operation of World War II (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0525429824/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1) by Antony Beevor
Are these the same book or did he write two separate ones?
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UK/US versions of the same book.
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Thanks. I'll go for the nicest cheap hardback then... after double-checking my existing kindle library, just in case. ;D
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I love the Kindle and actually can't read a book unless it's on Kindle just due to don't size mostly.
The problem with Kindle though is pictures. Historical war books often have pictures (for example maps as in the Beevor book) but they don't show up great on the Kindle and so you do miss something quite significant
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I love the Kindle and actually can't read a book unless it's on Kindle just due to don't size mostly.
The problem with Kindle though is pictures. Historical war books often have pictures (for example maps as in the Beevor book) but they don't show up great on the Kindle and so you do miss something quite significant
For that kind of stuff (lots of maps, diagrams, photos, etc) using the kindle app on an iPad or other large tablet works well. You can zoom in and out as needed. If you had an e-reader already you could do both and reed the largest sections of text on the e-ink device and referent to the tablet as needed.
For books that only have a few big maps (such as say, the endpaper world maps in a fantasy novel) you could print those out ahead of time on some paper since most map images are readily available on Google somewhere. If you can't D/L the file then do a screen capture instead.
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Yeah, the Kindle Paperwhite is pretty poor with images/maps, but the Fire is nice.
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Both me and Mrs B have had our Fire HD's for quite some time and use them a lot. Worth the price tag without doubt.
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Kindle Fire is too heavy for comfortable reading imo. Great for images. Perhaps I should have it to hand so I can look at proper images though :bigthumb: