Tactical board gaming funk

[Barthheart]

Sigh, I’ll copy my own response here. 

You rang?   

Yes all squads had a squad mg and leaders. I am comfortable with the idea that these are already in the calculation for the combat factors printed on the squad level counters.

The extra msg that are “sprinkled”, as you put it, throughout a force during setup represent platoon level or even company level assets that have been passed down to the units for the mission at hand. As for the leader counters, they represent exceptional individuals who make an impact through the power of their prowess/fighting knowledge/charisma on the battle at hand.

Back to JD’s AAR. 

[bob48]

I'm still not convinced..................

[Barthheart]

 

[bob48]

 

I think its all down to just an abstraction in order to allow playability, and in that respects, it works very well. We could have lots of rules which would only serve to complicate and slow down the game, and we don't want that, do we. Indeed not!

However..........for example; if a German squad has a firepower of 4 and a range of 6, and this squad includes an MG34 (or 42) which has a firepower of 2 and a range of 8, why can the squad not fire at range 8 with a reduced firepower?

 

[bayonetbrant]

if a German squad has a firepower of 4 and a range of 6, and this squad includes an MG34 (or 42) which has a firepower of 2 and a range of 8, why can the squad not fire at range 8 with a reduced firepower?

See, if you type your post in a different order, you answer your own question! 

I think its all down to just an abstraction in order to allow playability

but it's certainly not an invalid question!

[bob48]

Now how would that have been any fun?

[Barthheart]

I think its all down to just an abstraction in order to allow playability, and in that respects, it works very well. We could have lots of rules which would only serve to complicate and slow down the game, and we don't want that, do we. Indeed not!

However..........for example; if a German squad has a firepower of 4 and a range of 6, and this squad includes an MG34 (or 42) which has a firepower of 2 and a range of 8, why can the squad not fire at range 8 with a reduced firepower?

 

It’s your game, let them! 

[bayonetbrant]

Now how would that have been any fun?

 

[JudgeDredd]

if a German squad has a firepower of 4 and a range of 6, and this squad includes an MG34 (or 42) which has a firepower of 2 and a range of 8, why can the squad not fire at range 8 with a reduced firepower?

See, if you type your post in a different order, you answer your own question! 

I think its all down to just an abstraction in order to allow playability

but it's certainly not an invalid question!

ooooohh....that is clever right there 

He got ye bob.

[bob48]

Nope. I assure you he didn't.

I give up! I'm trying to explore the ways that an existing game system could have been done in a slightly different way without changing the fundamental system but to make it a bit more 'realistic' for want of a better term. In the case of OST, I have several idea's that would do this.

had I posted my 2 statements in the order suggested by Brant, then yes, I would have answered my own question and thus the topic would have been deader than it now is.

I don't know why the smeg I  bother.

Lets talker about hockey or movies or PC games instead, huh?

[mcguire]

 

[JudgeDredd]

I was just making a joke out of how he took two of your statements and flipped them to make his point. 

You know I agree with you...we've talked about various issues with different board games. But Brant also has a point. I agree with you both.

Whenever I've asked a question about LnL Tactical, Brant (and others) has answered it sufficiently for me to go away and play...and then think about it months later again because really there could be a different way of doing things and still keep gaming easy.

Like allowing a unit to self rally in LnL Tactical without a leader nearby, but at a reduced chance. Just one example.

OST - another example is the panzerfausts not being one use weapons but having a die roll to allow them to fire again - 5 or 6 and they keep the weapon, signifying the quantity these weapons were in use (I've only seen the movies..I have no hard knowledge of how many a squad of soldiers would carry).

I talked to you at length about LnL Tactical and how I found it dripping in tactical nuance with so many options and yet the entire experience for me is ruined with the vehicle "To Hit" check which makes it very, very difficult to hit anything from a tank and then the leader issue...really puts a downer on the game for me. I hate having to have my leader move, in the open often, towards a shaken unit because, if I don't, that squad is useless.

Often I come away thinking I'm just playing it wrong.

[bayonetbrant]

I'm trying to explore the ways that an existing game system could have been done in a slightly different way without changing the fundamental system but to make it a bit more 'realistic' for want of a better term. In the case of OST, I have several idea's that would do this.

I think what you've stumbled on is probably how a lot of game designs start - they take something unsatisfying about an existing game and 'fix' it, then build a new game around it.

On one hand, if that's the only change you're making then it's a simple enough house rule.  On the other hand, if there's more to be changed, then you end up w/ a new game.



That's how Mitchell Land turned Crisis Korea 1995 into the Next War series

But, first, the original idea was Gene Billingsley’s with Crisis Korea: 1995. I became interested in the game right around the same time he had begun working on the remake (which would eventually become Next War: Korea, 1st Ed. [NWK1E]). I pestered him enough with my ideas for “improvements,” that he finally just said, “OK, why don’t you do it.”

[Rekim]

However..........for example; if a German squad has a firepower of 4 and a range of 6, and this squad includes an MG34 (or 42) which has a firepower of 2 and a range of 8, why can the squad not fire at range 8 with a reduced firepower?

The effective range of an MG34/42 can be extended through the use of telescopic sights or the Lafette tripod (weighing in at 20Kg). Additional crew members and/or ammunition would also play a factor in extending firepower. I've heard it explained that these are the kinds of factors that differentiate the performance of an infantry squad with inherent MG34 vs a MG34 support weapon in ASL.

[Wolfgang]

It's nice that every tactical system finds its own way of representing various details. When it comes to realistic support weapons or equipment, you very quickly end up with awkward ways of representing them.

Regarding playability, we have decided in the design of Assault that we will integrate light support weapons into the unit values.

Heavy support weapons and support teams are shown as separate units. We have also integrated the difference in armament between different factions with the same unit type into the unit values.

For example, compare the unit cards DE Rifle Squad with SOV Rifle Squad. The German infantry group had a light MG34/42 permanently assigned to it. Therefore, the German squad has a slightly higher range and a little more (blue cube) firepower. 

The NKVD group had primarily submachine guns and is therefore extremely strong at short range. The German heavy machine gun is a squad that has a longer range and a much greater effect due to the lafetted weapon.