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Author Topic: Explorminate's Top Ten 4X Games of All Time List  (Read 7578 times)

Martok

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Reply #15 on: March 01, 2021, 09:59:23 PM
If my choices are doom-stacks or one-unit-per-tile/hex, I'll take the former any day of the week.  Not that either is ideal, granted, but I've consistently found stacks to be the lesser of two evils:  They're less immersion-breaking than 1UPT, and they're generally better for AI -- which you already alluded to (so thanks for help making my point 8) ). 

And I never claimed the AI in Civ IV doesn't cheat; I said it wasn't *obvious* about it, which is an important distinction.  An AI that manages to not be obvious about the fact that it's cheating, is good for a game's sense of immersion. 



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Barthheart

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Reply #16 on: March 01, 2021, 10:42:21 PM
I'll agree to disagree with you.

But yer wrong.

 >:D

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Anguille

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Reply #17 on: March 02, 2021, 12:51:34 AM
I would be curious why they didn't include one of the EU titles in this list.
Because EU games are not 4x games.



Anguille

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Reply #18 on: March 02, 2021, 12:56:34 AM
Either way though, their space roots are absolutely showing here as there seems to be an unbalanced against the historical games and their fantasy spin-offs
Thing is that there are more space 4x than anything else. In terms of 4x historical games, there are almost only the Civilization games.

Edit: note to myself. Always read the answers from Martok before answering. :whistle:
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 01:29:15 AM by Anguille »



Anguille

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Reply #19 on: March 02, 2021, 01:36:19 AM
I keep hearing people say Civ IV was the better of than Civ games...why? What changed that left that one king?
I think that there are many reasons for it and the game is, among CIV fans, often considered the best. I think it's probably the most complete game of the lot and offers a lot of modding options. The CIV i've played the most is CIV 6 which i really like but i do believe that CIV 4 deserves to be on the list.



Anguille

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Reply #20 on: March 02, 2021, 01:41:47 AM
Personally, I'd say it's a good list overall.  And whatever one might say about the game, I do believe DW:U has earned its spot at the top.  At the very least, I can easily understand why they ranked it #1. 


My main beef is that Stellaris is not on the list; in fact, I find its exclusion baffling.  I would probably swap it out with either SotS or FE:LH, as I do question whether those two games deserve to be on there (much as I personally adore the latter). 

I don't say that because I enjoy Stellaris, either.  (If I were to judge the list based on how much I personally like these games -- or not -- then Endless Legend, Sword of the Stars, and MOO2 wouldn't be on the list at all.)  But ever since release, the game has had such an immediate and outsized impact on the genre -- partially (and precisely) *because* it doesn't entirely follow your standard 4x formula -- that its inclusion in any "all time greatest" list seems pretty much obligatory.
You are right, I think Stellaris deserves a place on the top 10 list and i was surprised it didn't show up but frankly, i think the ones in the top 10 list do deserve the place too though i don't know Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes very well.  These games marked the industry, were different and had a big influence on the public, just like Stellaris.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 01:44:27 AM by Anguille »



bob48

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Reply #21 on: March 02, 2021, 06:04:25 AM
Its possible that i have mentioned this before, but............................I have never played any of the Civ games  : :whistle:

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Barthheart

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Reply #22 on: March 02, 2021, 06:50:46 AM
Its possible that i have mentioned this before, but............................I have never played any of the Civ games  : :whistle:

Weirdo....  :peace:

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Anguille

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Reply #23 on: March 02, 2021, 07:29:43 AM
Its possible that i have mentioned this before, but............................I have never played any of the Civ games  : :whistle:
Any specific reason for that?



bbmike

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Reply #24 on: March 02, 2021, 08:32:44 AM
See the post above yours.  :2funny:

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ojsdad

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Reply #25 on: March 02, 2021, 08:35:53 AM
What's missing from an EU game that doesn't make it a 4x.

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Anguille

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Reply #26 on: March 02, 2021, 09:06:12 AM
What's missing from an EU game that doesn't make it a 4x.
EU games have already defined borders and cities when you start. In a 4x you start with one city/planet, a colonizer/colonist and a couple of scouts.

That's why Paradox invented the term "Grand Strategy Games" for games that are not 4x. Total War games are not 4x games either.



Martok

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Reply #27 on: March 02, 2021, 07:27:25 PM
I'll agree to disagree with you.

But yer wrong.

 >:D

Sure, whatever you say. 

Apostate.  :biggrin: 




Edit: note to myself. Always read the answers from Martok before answering. :whistle:

Hahaha!  And here I was trying to save you a few keystrokes.  ;) 



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Martok

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Reply #28 on: March 02, 2021, 07:43:56 PM
You are right, I think Stellaris deserves a place on the top 10 list and i was surprised it didn't show up but frankly, i think the ones in the top 10 list do deserve the place too though i don't know Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes very well.  These games marked the industry, were different and had a big influence on the public, just like Stellaris.

Fully agreed. 

B4TTLEMODE provided an...interesting explanation to my query on Reddit as to why Stellaris was excluded from the list, yet Endless Legend was included.  While he lists some very valid problems with Stellaris, it still feels like a double-standard was applied where those two games were concerned, and/or that Rob & co. were looking for almost any excuse to keep Stellaris off the list, though I can't imagine they were consciously aware of doing so. 



On a different note:  The more I've thought about it, the more convinced I am that -- as much as it pains me to say it -- Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes has no business being on this list. 

For all that FE:LH is my favorite fantasy 4x, and is in my personal Top Five 4x games overall, I just don't think its impact/influence on the genre is in any way near what most of the others can boast, nor is there anything terribly revolutionary about its design or mechanics.  It's simply a well-made, well-designed game...with the occasional bug or two.  :P  But to place it among the all-time greats would be a mistake. 



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Martok

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Reply #29 on: March 02, 2021, 07:47:36 PM
Its possible that i have mentioned this before, but............................I have never played any of the Civ games  : :whistle:

That's all right.  You're still our Bawb.  :) 




What's missing from an EU game that doesn't make it a 4x.

A randomized map where you don't already know where everything is (geographically speaking).  And as Anguille pointed out, the starting conditions are different as well. 



"I like big maps and I cannot lie." - Barthheart

"I drastically overpaid for this existence." - bbmike