Author Topic: Tanks!  (Read 70164 times)

bayonetbrant

  • Arrogance Mitigator & Event "Organizer"
  • Administrator
  • Lead Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 12997
  • Going mad, but at least going somewhere
    • Six Degrees of Radio
Reply #420 on: March 12, 2022, 08:57:12 PM

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=++

Random acts of genius and other inspirations of applied violence.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Six Degrees of Radio for songs you should know by artists you should love


Staggerwing

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 4310
Reply #421 on: March 13, 2022, 09:53:11 AM
... oopsie

Vituð ér enn - eða hvat?  -Voluspa


bayonetbrant

  • Arrogance Mitigator & Event "Organizer"
  • Administrator
  • Lead Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 12997
  • Going mad, but at least going somewhere
    • Six Degrees of Radio
Reply #422 on: March 13, 2022, 04:02:33 PM

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=++

Random acts of genius and other inspirations of applied violence.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Six Degrees of Radio for songs you should know by artists you should love


judgedredd

  • Sergeant
  • ***
  • Posts: 2624
  • OJsdad - No, she just told me to drop them. Been s
Reply #423 on: March 31, 2022, 09:59:11 AM
lol

some bad language in this


Alba gu' brath

ojsdad - "No, she just told me to drop them. Been so long since woman told me to do that I just did it."


bayonetbrant

  • Arrogance Mitigator & Event "Organizer"
  • Administrator
  • Lead Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 12997
  • Going mad, but at least going somewhere
    • Six Degrees of Radio
Reply #424 on: May 22, 2022, 08:23:06 PM
had a facebook discussion about tank rates of fire and I snagged my part of it in case any of y'all were interested

Quote
So this is going to take a second, but bear with me.  There's 2 facets that affect the 'rate of fire' for an M1: the way you calculate the firing times on the range, and where the ammo is stored in the tank

Reload times, and range shenanigans
There is a standard published in the tank crew gunnery skills test that you have to be able to reload the main gun in under 6 seconds, or we don't even let you on the range. (caveat: it was 6 seconds when last I was on an M1, which was over 10 years ago; it could've changed, but it's still going to be pretty low).  So at a minimum, from the time the gun recoils, and ejects the aft-cap of the previous round, you have 6 seconds trigger the knee switch on the ammo door, pull out your next round, get it into the gun, hit the safety rod, and announce "UP!" that the round is ready to fire (and make sure you're out of the way of the upcoming recoil, too).  There are guys that'll do it in 3 seconds, consistently.
Now, that's a test in a stationary tank in a controlled environment.  What about the range?
There are gunnery engagements when you're on a scored tank range where you'll get 2 or 3 different targets to shoot, and your score depends on how quickly you knock them all down.  Remember those 3-6 second reload times?  They'll consistently hit targets 3-4 seconds apart.  In fact, you'll have some crews hitting targets 1-2 seconds apart.  Some of that is training, and some of it is gamesmanship.
When you fire the main gun, you kick up a lot of dust.  That dust will obscure the gunner's optical sights (tho not usually the thermals).  When your sights are obscured, you call out "OBSCURATION" to let the tank commander know you can't see.  This is very important in a battle b/c they're not necessarily using the same sights inside the tank (they can but often don't).  The TC will help reorient the gun, and when the gunner finds the next target, called "IDENTIFIED" and the battle drill continues.  The gamesmanship is this: when the gunner calls "OBSCURATION" the time between targets stops on the scorecard in the tower at the range.  Once you identify the net target, the time starts again.  A clever gunner will call "OBSCURATION" no matter what, while looking for the next target, so once it's identified and the time starts, the main gun is already reloaded and everyone's ready to shoot, and that's often 1-2 seconds between targets.
So they are rarely so legitimately fast that they are actually hitting targets in under 2 seconds.  But they're *required* to be fast enough to be reloaded in under 6 seconds, and after that it's up to the TC/gunner to find the target to shoot.

Ammo storage
Officially, the M1A1-series holds 40 rounds of 120mm ammo.  But that doesn't mean you have 40 rounds to shoot.  There are 3 separate racks of ammo in the tank: 2 in the turret and one in the hull.
The "ready" rack is right behind the loader, has a door with the knee switch, and is where he pulls ammo from during the engagement.  Depending on your M1 model, there's either 17 or 18 rounds in here, but there's 2 of them in the top corner that are a son of an unholy bitch to get to.
The "semi-ready" rack is behind the tank commander.  These are in the turret, but not where the loader can access during a fight b/c there's a guy in the way.  During a lull in the fight, you transfer ammo from the semi-ready rack to the ready rack for the loader to replenish.  A good crew can move 8-10 rounds in under 5 minutes.
The rest of the ammo is stored down in the hull, where you have to spin the turret to a certain angle, and point the gun a certain way so the breech isn't in your way, and pull those rounds out of the hull storage.  It sucks as much as it sounds.  Even an awesome crew takes at least 10 minutes to get those out and into the loader's ready rack.

So all of that is to say that just b/c you hear that an Abrams "rate of fire" is ____ don't put too much stock into it.  It depends on how you're calculating time between shots (are you breaking range ties for obscuration?  counting target acquisition time?)  It depends on how many rounds you're trying to fire before having to replenish the ready rack.  And it (as always) depends on how good your crew is.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 08:26:51 PM by bayonetbrant »

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=++

Random acts of genius and other inspirations of applied violence.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Six Degrees of Radio for songs you should know by artists you should love


judgedredd

  • Sergeant
  • ***
  • Posts: 2624
  • OJsdad - No, she just told me to drop them. Been s
Reply #425 on: May 23, 2022, 02:50:47 AM
 :bigthumb:

I did always wonder how they got 40 rounds into that wee bit of the turret

Alba gu' brath

ojsdad - "No, she just told me to drop them. Been so long since woman told me to do that I just did it."


bob48

  • Smeghead.
  • Warrant Officer
  • Lead Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 10226
Reply #426 on: May 23, 2022, 06:45:30 AM
Yeah, that is very interesting.

“O Lord God, let me not be disgraced in my old days.”

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'


mcguire

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 1001
  • Shoes for industry!
Reply #427 on: May 23, 2022, 03:56:54 PM
Clearly, somebody needs to take some lessons on rapid fire from the Royal Navy.

"Man...knowing how to use the cards properly certainly changes how I play the game" -- judgedredd


bob48

  • Smeghead.
  • Warrant Officer
  • Lead Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 10226
Reply #428 on: May 23, 2022, 05:07:19 PM
I don't think that the RN has used tanks since WW1.

The first tanks were known as 'HM Land Ships' and were crewed by the RN. But you knew that, didn't you?  ;D


“O Lord God, let me not be disgraced in my old days.”

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'


bayonetbrant

  • Arrogance Mitigator & Event "Organizer"
  • Administrator
  • Lead Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 12997
  • Going mad, but at least going somewhere
    • Six Degrees of Radio
Reply #429 on: May 24, 2022, 03:41:31 PM



=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=++

Random acts of genius and other inspirations of applied violence.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Six Degrees of Radio for songs you should know by artists you should love


bob48

  • Smeghead.
  • Warrant Officer
  • Lead Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 10226
Reply #430 on: May 24, 2022, 04:01:37 PM
Those are Chieftain MBT's, so that film is a bit old now.

“O Lord God, let me not be disgraced in my old days.”

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'


GROGnadsUSA

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Trooper
  • *
  • Posts: 213
  • 'Wookiee Defender'
    • GROGnads etc.
Reply #431 on: June 14, 2022, 07:20:55 PM
Hoi y`all and here we have the newest/latest/modernistic German 'Tank'! ""KF-51""



bayonetbrant

  • Arrogance Mitigator & Event "Organizer"
  • Administrator
  • Lead Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 12997
  • Going mad, but at least going somewhere
    • Six Degrees of Radio
Reply #432 on: June 14, 2022, 07:28:11 PM
As noted in today's Tuesday Newsday!

=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=++

Random acts of genius and other inspirations of applied violence.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Six Degrees of Radio for songs you should know by artists you should love


Staggerwing

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 4310
Reply #433 on: June 14, 2022, 09:57:03 PM
Looks like a bit of a shot trap between the hull front and the turret

Vituð ér enn - eða hvat?  -Voluspa


GROGnadsUSA

  • Patreon Supporters
  • Trooper
  • *
  • Posts: 213
  • 'Wookiee Defender'
    • GROGnads etc.
Reply #434 on: June 15, 2022, 02:09:49 AM
As noted in today's Tuesday Newsday!
ALSO, for those of US 'Artillery Cannoneers'..."French" 'Caesar' 155mm 'Tubester' "Gunbunnies" 'gosh-gasp' gutteringly gnat-urally, gnu-know eh?