Distant Worlds 2

[ojsdad]

And in a few cases, they seem to have taken a step back.  Maybe I (we) had too many high hopes for DW2

Here's an example.  You can either turn auto ship design on or off in DW2.  It's all ships or none.  In DW2, you could pick which type of ships/bases were auto upgraded and which were not.  But you don't have those options in DW2.  I mean, most likely, most of us don't have too much interest in designing civilian ships or resorts.  Why are those options no longer available?

[ojsdad]

Ok, another thing I'm noticing.  Combat doesn't seem much, if at all, improved over DWU.  Ships in fleet don't seem to attack as a group and can end up getting picked off.  In Stellaris, ship designs have combat roles that can be configured per design.  This means you end up with some ships swarming their opponents, while others, get close, and others stay further back.  But in call cases, they tend to move a fleet.  Yes, the smaller faster swarming ships will tend to move ahead of the rest of the fleet, but they move as one group.   

[Yskonyn]

I was a tester and I don't recall seeing any reports of people not being able to start the game or get those black screens and crashes all the time.
Something in their code changed from beta to release as I was suddenly unable to start the game on my laptop anymore where that machine ran the beta without a hitch. You can't provide feedback on stuff that doesn't happen.

The fleet behaviour probably hasn't been tested enough. Perhaps this is due to the fact that certain beta version required a new game start and people with less time (like me) never made it to the late game in my playthroughs.
Perhaps a focussed gamestate where they wanted you to test a specific savegame state would have helped here.

So, yes I do stand by what Erik posted; 300 beta testers was probably too little. Of those 300 a fair few were only drafted in the last 3 months or so.

In defense of the game though, a lot of issues I see being posted are linked to people trying to play the DWU way, whereas DW2 offers the same options in gameplay., just in a different manner. It's hard for Erik and Elliot to sift through proper issues and these user error things.

For example. many people insist they want to give orders via the right-mouse click menu, where DW2's menu system provides this functionality now. Learn to use the lists in the proper window panes and the UI will start making sense before long.

That said, OJsDad makes a few good points as well. The game definitely needs improvements. I am sure we'll get there, though.

[ojsdad]

I was a tester and I don't recall seeing any reports of people not being able to start the game or get those black screens and crashes all the time.
Something in their code changed from beta to release as I was suddenly unable to start the game on my laptop anymore where that machine ran the beta without a hitch. You can't provide feedback on stuff that doesn't happen.

Yep, sounds like there was a change made to the release code that never made it to the testers.  I've been around developers for years now, and I can tell you none of them like to do full regression testing.  They truly believe that the change they made for one part of any application won't impact another part.

Thanks for giving some insights on what was happening with testing. 

[ojsdad]

For example. many people insist they want to give orders via the right-mouse click menu, where DW2's menu system provides this functionality now. Learn to use the lists in the proper window panes and the UI will start making sense before long.

I agree with this.  It's also why I'm avoiding the forums as much as possible and keeping discussions here first.  It is taking time to learn the new GUI/Interface, but that is part of the fun is learning the new pieces. 

I think most people forget that DWU was the culmination of many years of DLC and improvement over the initial release.  But, as we've talked about here before, there were a few glaring issues with the final product that, at least for me, kept me from enjoying as much as I wanted to at times.  Compound that with Stellaris being front and center in between DWU and DW2.  And yes, DW and Stellaris are two totally different games in some aspects.  I don't see DW ever having mega structures or pops like Stellaris has. 

[Huw the Poo]

I think most people forget that DWU was the culmination of many years of DLC and improvement over the initial release.

Quite. So one would reasonably expect a few lessons to have been learned.

I don't want to be completely negative. I want DW2 to be the amazing game I'm pretty sure it can be...I paid for my copy after all. It's just frustrating to see the devs make the same mistakes.

[ojsdad]

I do consider DW a true space naval game more so than Stellaris.  I was always a wormhole person, and still not opposed to them, but after reading the Honorverse books, I'm a lot more open to hyper/warp open space.  DW allows and requires you to build refueling points, long range scanner, boarder strong points, and rapid reaction forces. 

[Martok]

I just have to say that you guys are making it difficult for me to meaningfully contribute to this thread lately, though it's for (a) good reason(s):  By the time I get around to posting any particular thoughts about the game, I discover one of you has already beaten me to it.  (Seriously, I find myself agreeing with just about everything you guys are saying.)   

[Yskonyn]

I do consider DW a true space naval game more so than Stellaris.  I was always a wormhole person, and still not opposed to them, but after reading the Honorverse books, I'm a lot more open to hyper/warp open space.  DW allows and requires you to build refueling points, long range scanner, boarder strong points, and rapid reaction forces.

Well put! That’s exactly what I like about the game as well. In comparison Stellaris plays more like a board game. Which has its charm in a different way I suppose.

The refueling mechanics in DW2 are pretty much a mess at the moment. Tankers constantly trying to refuel eachother in a fleet is one big issue.
Its on the radar of Codeforce/Matrix, so we have to be patient.
I am not sure why this hasn’t been catched in beta testing however.

[Martok]

Beta update (1.0.2.9) has dropped.  Also available on Steam and GOG: 


https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10151&t=382205

Hi everyone,

This is the first of our beta updates which we hope will become an official update early next week. This is focused on critical crash issues and we think we've made significant progress on them.

If you are having any issues, please try this new beta and let us know if it helps you.

To facilitate frequent beta iterations as needed, this beta is only available for now on Steam and GOG. All Matrix customers also have a free Steam key available (through your My Page) which can be activated if desired to install DW2 via Steam and test this Beta there.

On Steam, you can switch to it by going to Distant Worlds 2 in your Steam Library, right-clicking on it, choosing Properties -> Betas -> then choosing "beta - v.1.0.2.9" from the drop-down list and allowing Steam to update your game. If it updates correctly, you should see 1.0.2.9 listed as your version in-game on the bottom right.

On GOG, you can switch to it by going to Distant Worlds 2 in your GOG Library, selecting Distant Worlds 2, then clicking on the button next to "Play" that looks like two horizontal lines with small offset circles, choosing Manage Installation -> Configure then picking "Open Beta" from the Beta channels drop-down list and allowing GOG to update.

Changes in 1.0.2.9:

CRASH FIXES

- changed how colony city night lights are handled to minimize video memory usage
- improved game update cycle to eliminate possible threading issues during game saves
- fixed crash when evaluating ship boarding status
- fixed rare crash when ship or base fires weapons
- fixed rare crash when finding nearest refuelling point
- fixed rare crash when colony wiped out
- now more careful with handling missing game settings files

ADDITIONAL LOGGING

- added functionality to automatically send crash logs to dev team (prompts player to send in next game session)

OTHER CHANGES

- now display message to indicate when auto-saving the game
- fixed cluster galaxies sometimes generating star systems outside playable area
- data fixes to certain ship hull data typos for troop transports and some stations
- data fixes for various story event issues
- research project tree fixes for various fallback and prerequisite paths, mainly to fix the armor tree
- Defensive bases can now be research one Tech Level earlier on the Research Tree


Regards,

- Erik

[Martok]

Beta 1.0.3.0 is now available: 

Changes in 1.0.3.0

CRASH FIXES

- fixed rare crash when evaluating collision avoidance factors
- fixed rare crash when assigning ship mission
- fixed rare crash when determining whether to accept treaty
- fixed rare crash when checking whether a fleet should retreat from a battle
- fixed crash when obtaining ruins and wonders at a location
- fixed crash when drawing research project summary
- fixed rare crash when ship or base fires weapons at attackers
- fixed rare crash when colony conquered by invasion
- fixed rare crash when selecting random resource
- fixed rare crash when determining diplomatic strategies with other empires

PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENTS

- improved rendering performance when in research screen

OTHER CHANGES

- additional data fixes for certain small troop transport ship hulls and certain artifacts

In addition, Erik has linked an experimental tool for those still experiencing certain major technical problems: 


https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=4981674#p4981674

[Boyerwulf]

My latest thoughts on DW2. Stolen from a social media post I made.

 I think the game lacks in many things. The AI is completely brain dead and never consolidates it's forces. It will get together a small fleet and attack your fleet which is 6x bigger, over and over. Must be the reason people recommend playing on the highest difficulty levels. Designing your own ships is a waste of time because you then have to micromanage any upgrades, since any AI upgrades will totally change the ship. You have no control over battles, it just looks like a bunch of rugby teams charging each other. Almost no flavor as far the different races go. You automate most of everything frankly because stuff like building mining stations, and telling your explorers where to go every 15 seconds gets boring, and repetitive. The ridiculous amount of resources means that you almost have to set the economy to be automated, in order to make the game playable. Having played both this and Endless Space 2 the past week, I have to give the nod to Endless Space 2 in almost every category. While I initially liked what I saw in DW2, further playtime has soured me on it. I'm sure I will get back to it at some point.

[Huw the Poo]

I couldn't agree more. I'm glad people who can't even play the game are getting priority, but in the long run the devs have a lot of work to do to bring out the full potential.

I considered giving a negative review on Steam, which (as far as a binary positive/negative choice allows) they probably deserve, but I'm holding off to see what happens in the coming months. I'd much rather give a positive review...

As things stand, this is the biggest gaming disappointment of 2022 so far for me.

[Martok]

Version v.1.0.3.1 is out... 


https://steamcommunity.com/games/1531540/announcements/detail/3213888789290975573

Hello everyone,

a new update
for Distant Worlds 2 went live, here is the changelog:

CRASH FIXES


- fixed crash when ship performs collision avoidance
- fixed crash when ship determines large items to avoid
- fixed crash when completing spy mission
- fixed crash when finding nearest refuelling point
- fixed rare crash during rendering
- fixed rare crash when generating tool tips
- fixed rare crash when investigating abandoned ships or bases
- fixed crash when drawing animated characters
- fixed crash when creature moves to new location
- fixed crash when evaluating threats
- fixed crash when rendering system badges
- fixed crash when ship destroyed
- fixed crash when assigning ship mission
- fixed crash when rendering ship and base symbols
- fixed crash when updating empire territory
- fixed crash when ship exits hyperjump
- fixed crash when rendering effects
- fixed crash when identifying refuelling points
- fixed crash when reviewing fleet escort ships
- fixed crash when ship is refuelling
- fixed crash when finding fastest construction yard
- fixed crash when determining blockaded locations
- fixed crash when artifact changes location
- fixed crash when notifying empire of attack
- fixed rare crash when add display effect
- fixed rare crash when rotating stars and planets
- fixed crash when moving weapon blast
- fixed crash when updating nebula storm clouds
- fixed crash when ship or base destroyed
- fixed crash when showing message
- fixed rare crash when ship fires weapons at attackers
- fixed crash when adding resource/tourism/migration flow data
- fixed rare crash when generating tool tips
- fixed crash when drawing nebula storm clouds
- fixed crash when ship or base destroyed
- fixed crash when directing fleet escorts
- fixed crash when updating nebula cloud rendering
- fixed crash when resolving trade offer description
- fixed crash when getting fleet jump speed
- fixed crash when processing ship
- fixed crash when processing location effects
- fixed crash when checking for active hyperdeny at a location
- fixed crash when generating task to queue construction of a base at a location
- fixed rare crash when evaluating collision avoidance factors
- fixed rare crash when assigning ship mission
- fixed rare crash when determining whether to accept treaty
- fixed rare crash when checking whether a fleet should retreat from a battle
- fixed crash when obtaining ruins and wonders at a location
- fixed crash when drawing research project summary
- fixed rare crash when ship or base fires weapons at attackers
- fixed rare crash when colony conquered by invasion
- fixed rare crash when selecting random resource
- fixed rare crash when determining diplomatic strategies with other empires
- changed how colony city night lights are handled to minimize video memory usage
- improved game update cycle to eliminate possible threading issues during game saves
- fixed crash when evaluating ship boarding status
- fixed rare crash when ship or base fires weapons
- fixed rare crash when finding nearest refuelling point
- fixed rare crash when colony wiped out
- now more careful with handling missing game settings files

PERFORMANCE IMPROVEMENTS


- improved rendering performance when in research screen

ADDITIONAL LOGGING

- added functionality to automatically send crash logs to dev team (prompts player to send in next game session)

OTHER CHANGES

- additional data fixes for certain small troop transport ship hulls and certain artifacts
- now display message to indicate when auto-saving the game
- fixed cluster galaxies sometimes generating star systems outside playable area
- data fixes to certain ship hull data typos for troop transports and some stations
- data fixes for various story event issues
- research project tree fixes for various fallback and prerequisite paths, mainly to fix the armor tree
- Defensive bases can now be research one Tech Level earlier on the Research Tree

[Martok]

I'm not as down on the game you guys are, but I'm admittedly not super gung-ho on it right now either.  I definitely understand where you're coming from. 


It kills me to say this, but I'm struggling finding the motivation to play DW2 right now.  Don't get me wrong, there's a lot about the game that I like.  And I absolutely love the concept; I always have. 

At the moment, though, I'm just not seeing that it's a huge improvement over Distant Worlds: Universe.  I'm not seeing a qualitative difference between the two games, aside from the visuals and the UI...and even in those two areas, I'm not sure the improvements are *enough* of a difference to be worth it. 


When I sit down and actually play DW2, I have fun with it...for a little while.  Sooner or later, however, I find myself encountering issues -- the exploration ships, unintuitive colonization issues, fleets not moving/arriving together, the ship design problems mentioned by Boyerwulf (and so many others), etc. -- that cumulatively and up irritating me to the point that I have to just put down the game, and make me not want to come back to until a few months down the road.  Hopefully at that point, some of these issues will have been addressed. 

I do believe Distant Worlds 2 will get where it needs to be, eventually.  Given Slitherine's and Codeforce's long-term commitment to the game (as they were to the previous game), I'm confident of that.  As it stands right now, however, I just don't think it's there yet.