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Wargaming => Intel Dump => Topic started by: bayonetbrant on September 12, 2019, 02:39:39 PM

Title: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 12, 2019, 02:39:39 PM
Make your case in the comments below
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: Barthheart on September 12, 2019, 02:50:00 PM
You left off Normandy 44 and Market Garden.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: Silent Disapproval Robot on September 12, 2019, 02:53:12 PM
Yeah.  I was going to go with Omaha Beach. 
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bob48 on September 12, 2019, 02:53:49 PM
My vote was for the only non historical topic!
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: mirth on September 12, 2019, 02:56:32 PM
I'll live a happy life if I never play another skirmish level Stalingrad game.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bbmike on September 12, 2019, 02:59:23 PM
Somebody please click Waterloo and trigger another Cyrano rant.  :2funny:
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: Bison on September 12, 2019, 03:05:56 PM
Well people would have to play games about Waterloo first...😳
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bbmike on September 12, 2019, 03:13:19 PM
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/fpXxIjftmkk9y/giphy.webp?cid=790b761136ed88e0dc1a907bd04b9494b7a1a8a469ef1266&rid=giphy.webp)
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: Cyrano on September 12, 2019, 03:28:20 PM
I.

Will.

Not.

Be.

Triggered.

By.

The.

Bad.

Men.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: mirth on September 12, 2019, 03:36:55 PM
Well people would have to play games about Waterloo first...😳

Some of us play more than Agricola and MTG :P
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: Bison on September 12, 2019, 03:44:22 PM
Well people would have to play games about Waterloo first...😳

Some of us play more than Agricola and MTG :P

It’s ok no one will judge your aspirations to be would catan champion.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: mirth on September 12, 2019, 03:47:18 PM
It’s ok no one will judge your aspirations to be would catan champion.

https://www.thegamer.com/tabeletop-games-overrated-should-be-playing/ (https://www.thegamer.com/tabeletop-games-overrated-should-be-playing/)


Quote
There are much better games out there to play, but if building roads and growing wheat sound like fun then give Settlers of Catan a try.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: Bison on September 12, 2019, 03:55:50 PM
It’s ok no one will judge your aspirations to be would catan champion.

https://www.thegamer.com/tabeletop-games-overrated-should-be-playing/ (https://www.thegamer.com/tabeletop-games-overrated-should-be-playing/)


Quote
There are much better games out there to play, but if building roads and growing wheat sound like fun then give Settlers of Catan a try.

Put the sheep cards back in the box...pervert.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: trailrunner on September 12, 2019, 04:27:18 PM
I voted for Bulge.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: tuna on September 12, 2019, 04:51:16 PM
Was going to vote Bulge too, is this for Boardgames only though?
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: Staggerwing on September 12, 2019, 07:14:46 PM
I voted Bulge as well since I've been battling that one on the computer for decades and now also on the bathroom scale...  :(
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: Martok on September 13, 2019, 12:54:14 AM
Was going to vote Bulge too, is this for Boardgames only though?

I second this question.  Are we counting only boardgames, or are we including computer wargames too? 

Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 13, 2019, 05:39:14 AM
"wargamed"
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bbmike on September 13, 2019, 08:42:16 AM
"wargamed"

You do realize that clarifies nothing in a LOT of minds these days.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bob48 on September 13, 2019, 09:45:36 AM
I would also dispute the inclusion of Stalingrad, as it was not really a battle in the same way as the others on your list, which lasted only maybe a few days. Its really a campaign that lasted for months.

Just sayin'
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 13, 2019, 10:52:06 AM
"wargamed"

You do realize that clarifies nothing in a LOT of minds these days.


 :2thumbs:
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 13, 2019, 11:58:17 AM
I would also dispute the inclusion of Stalingrad, as it was not really a battle in the same way as the others on your list, which lasted only maybe a few days. Its really a campaign that lasted for months.

Just sayin'

That's a good point. That was a series of a lot of battles.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: mirth on September 13, 2019, 12:34:14 PM
I would also dispute the inclusion of Stalingrad, as it was not really a battle in the same way as the others on your list, which lasted only maybe a few days. Its really a campaign that lasted for months.

Just sayin'

The fight for the city itself was a prolonged battle. And it is definitely over-gamed.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: mirth on September 13, 2019, 12:42:18 PM
The Bulge was not a single battle either and lasted for six weeks.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: Martok on September 13, 2019, 03:37:44 PM
If we're going by the standard of one single battle vs. a series of interconnected ones, then I'm not sure the Fulda Gap scenario counts either. 


At this point, I'd say it's down to either Gettysburg or Waterloo (at least for myself). 
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 13, 2019, 03:46:43 PM
You know the old saying...opinions are like wargames, all of us has at least one. :)
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: mirth on September 13, 2019, 03:52:54 PM
I blame the guy who made the poll
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 13, 2019, 04:13:45 PM
I blame the guy who made the poll


he's a dick
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bob48 on September 13, 2019, 04:16:45 PM
I think that whole poll is spurious and should be disregarded entirely. :whistle:
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bbmike on September 13, 2019, 04:34:04 PM
I think there should be a tax on all foreigners living abroad.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bob48 on September 13, 2019, 04:36:44 PM
I think its time nursie gave you your medication - I'll have mine as well.............................. :idiot2:
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: Bison on September 13, 2019, 04:39:22 PM
I’m not really concerned about how often a battle or operation/campaign has been used to design wargames. I’m more concerned about how the systems I enjoy to play present them. There are many Bulge, Normandy, and Market Garden games but Simonitch‘s operation XX games are among my favorite WW2 games. That’s all that really matters to me because I don’t or haven’t played others.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bbmike on September 13, 2019, 04:49:02 PM
I think its time nursie gave you your medication - I'll have mine as well.............................. :idiot2:

If you didn't get that reference then I'm starting to worry about you.(http://aarcentral.com/emoti/new/scratchead.gif)
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bob48 on September 13, 2019, 04:52:20 PM
There is, and I pay it - who gets the money?
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: Staggerwing on September 13, 2019, 06:32:08 PM
Are you standing in water?
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bbmike on September 13, 2019, 06:35:05 PM
Are you standing in water?

 :2thumbs:
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: mirth on September 13, 2019, 08:42:35 PM
This is a bigger waste of time than anything I have seen on Grogheads recently, so kudos everyone!
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bbmike on September 13, 2019, 08:51:14 PM
Maybe it's time to start up another web site.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: mirth on September 13, 2019, 10:25:52 PM
Maybe it's time to start up another web site.

Agreed. Lemme know when BbmikeDragoonHeads.com is ready.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: Sir Slash on September 13, 2019, 10:50:08 PM
This is certainly not a waste of my time. Compared to waiting for more dust to form on my computer screen so I can clean it, this is exciting.  :D
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: bob48 on September 14, 2019, 06:16:41 AM
We would get more enjoyment in sitting in a circle and hitting each other over the back of the head with a rolled-up copy of the ASL rules.

..assuming you could roll up the ASL rules.......................

Look - with regards to Stalingrad as an example;

There is a vast difference from 'Stalingrad 42' in scale and scope than say, the old SPI 'Battle for Stalingrad', or MMP's 'Storm Over Stalingrad'  or some of the ASL Stalingrad scenario's, so I don't see that you can lump 'em all together in one category.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: panzerde on September 14, 2019, 03:03:33 PM
I'd have gone for the "Anything WW2" option had it been there. I'll be fine with never playing another WW2 game, ever. Having said that if the choice is between playing any WW2 game and simply having to look at the box of a Euro, Ameritrash or card game I'll even play Tide of Iron.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: Bison on September 14, 2019, 05:23:27 PM
We would get more enjoyment in sitting in a circle and hitting each other over the back of the head with a rolled-up copy of the ASL rules.

..assuming you could roll up the ASL rules.......................

Look - with regards to Stalingrad as an example;

There is a vast difference from 'Stalingrad 42' in scale and scope than say, the old SPI 'Battle for Stalingrad', or MMP's 'Storm Over Stalingrad'  or some of the ASL Stalingrad scenario's, so I don't see that you can lump 'em all together in one category.

Getting hit in the head by an ASL rulebook is only slightly less dangerous than being hit with a frying pan.

Good points on Stalingrad.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: panzerde on September 14, 2019, 07:17:43 PM
Stalingrad at any scale is still two groups of evil bastards slaughtering each other for completely repellent ideologies, demonstrating very little that in any way contributed to the overall sum of military knowledge and skill.

The value of Stalingrad is to serve as an example of what not be, and what not to do.
Title: Re: Most Over-Wargamed Battle
Post by: mirth on September 15, 2019, 10:18:32 AM
demonstrating very little that in any way contributed to the overall sum of military knowledge and skill.

I'd take the counter-position that the Soviets demonstrated significant skill by feeding in just enough men and material to tie the Germans down in the city while they built up on the wings for the counter-offensive and encirclement.


These are the things we could argue about endlessly. I prefer to do it over a good bottle of whiskey while sitting around a fire.