"Brave Little Belgium " Undone by the Wit of "The Dice Tower"

[mirth]

I'm much happier sitting down every Thursday with my regular gaming opponent. We play, we discuss the game, we discuss the hobby (we are both involved as designers/developers), and we have an enjoyable time. I'd love more of a "club" environment where multiple people did the same regularly.

I'm with you there and I'm fortunate enough to have something of a club.


I've learned the hard way about gaming at cons. I stick with games that I have some experience with and have a published set of rules (versus homebrew rules that exist largely in the gamemaster's head). I also tend to only play in games where I know who the GM is and how they run games. I've been burned too many times by shitty GMs running shitty house ruled games. Those make for interminably long, painful sessions.

[panzerde]

I wasn't "mature" when I got into the hobby. I bought my first AH game, Luftwaffe, when I was 14. All it takes is a little reading of history and literally anyone can understand how wrong that young man was. Maybe it's a failure of history teachings at a young age? I don't have kids so have no read on that subject but I know I love history in high school.

Same here. I was probably 10 when I bought "Alexander the Great" and played it until the graphics had nearly worn off the counters. I was always interested in history, especially military history, for as long as I can remember.  I think that's the difference. I've never found a wargamer that wasn't interested in history. There are plenty of boardgamers that aren't. There are plenty that actively despise history. It's probably a waste of time to try and persuade people who aren't interested in the thing that's at the core of our hobby to get involved.

So, in an effort to be more positive, if Origins isn't the place to be (I agree with Mirth's assessment), then what con would be a better one for ACD to have a presence? Do we even want to go to a con? Why not rent a cabin or a block of rooms and meet up, like a club, to play games and hang out? If you ask the team from Origins the number one reason they go, the answer is always to hang out with other people from ACD. Why insist on interrupting the gaming and hanging out with ancillary stuff?

[panzerde]

... I'd love more of a "club" environment where multiple people did the same regularly.

Jim's doing a fine job with Saturday Night Fights to create just that.

Quit streaming it to turn it into yet another "let's promote the hobby" thing, and I'll agree with that. Let's just play games, and stop with all the "Look at us! We play wargames!" stuff.

[bbmike]

I appreciate the work you guys have put in at Origins, but having attended recently I can say with some confidence that it is not a wargaming convention nor does it seem all that interested in really supporting the hobby. That said, there are plenty of other cons out there that are more aligned with and supportive of the hobby.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

Which, sadly, really was a game at Origins...

[panzerde]

I appreciate the work you guys have put in at Origins, but having attended recently I can say with some confidence that it is not a wargaming convention nor does it seem all that interested in really supporting the hobby. That said, there are plenty of other cons out there that are more aligned with and supportive of the hobby.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

Which, sadly, really was a game at Origins...

Hence my choice of phrase 

[Barthheart]

... I'd love more of a "club" environment where multiple people did the same regularly.

Jim's doing a fine job with Saturday Night Fights to create just that.

Quit streaming it to turn it into yet another "let's promote the hobby" thing, and I'll agree with that. Let's just play games, and stop with all the "Look at us! We play wargames!" stuff.

Grumpy old man! Someone pee in yer cornflakes this morning? 
I don't see the streaming thing as "let's promote the hobby" thing. We only get a handful of watchers and they are all already wargamers.... I see it a as a bunch of guys playing wargames and letting other who enjoy wargames watch and kibitz... like a gaming club...
 

[mirth]

I appreciate the work you guys have put in at Origins, but having attended recently I can say with some confidence that it is not a wargaming convention nor does it seem all that interested in really supporting the hobby. That said, there are plenty of other cons out there that are more aligned with and supportive of the hobby.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

Which, sadly, really was a game at Origins...

Oh sweet Moses 

[panzerde]

Grumpy old man! Someone pee in yer cornflakes this morning? 
I don't see the streaming thing as "let's promote the hobby" thing. We only get a handful of watchers and they are all already wargamers.... I see it a as a bunch of guys playing wargames and letting other who enjoy wargames watch and kibitz... like a gaming club...

I am totally in grumpy old man mode. It's everything I can do to not blame this entire discussion on Millennials.

Having said that, the streaming does put me off. I feel like it's a performance, not a game.

[Barthheart]

Grumpy old man! Someone pee in yer cornflakes this morning? 
I don't see the streaming thing as "let's promote the hobby" thing. We only get a handful of watchers and they are all already wargamers.... I see it a as a bunch of guys playing wargames and letting other who enjoy wargames watch and kibitz... like a gaming club...

I am totally in grumpy old man mode. It's everything I can do to not blame this entire discussion on Millennials.

Having said that, the streaming does put me off. I feel like it's a performance, not a game.

Well... maybe we need to a few sessions that are not performance art....

[mirth]

Grumpy old man! Someone pee in yer cornflakes this morning? 
I don't see the streaming thing as "let's promote the hobby" thing. We only get a handful of watchers and they are all already wargamers.... I see it a as a bunch of guys playing wargames and letting other who enjoy wargames watch and kibitz... like a gaming club...

I am totally in grumpy old man mode. It's everything I can do to not blame this entire discussion on Millennials.

Having said that, the streaming does put me off. I feel like it's a performance, not a game.

Well... maybe we need to a few sessions that are not performance art....

probably better if I sit those out

[Bison]

The place to be is Origins, if the goal is to promote the hobby. If the goal is to play and discuss war games with more people who already share your passion, I doubt origins is the place to be for the best experience. How many people have be exposed to kreigsspeil or finally able to play it because it’s made available? I’m willing to bet it’s “house ruled” and the GM is unknown to many of the new players.

I guess I’m in the minority. I’ll play a game run by anyone...once. Then all bets are off. My time is not your time to waste if I don’t enjoy your company or the gameplay experience.

[Cyrano]

... I'd love more of a "club" environment where multiple people did the same regularly.

Jim's doing a fine job with Saturday Night Fights to create just that.

Quit streaming it to turn it into yet another "let's promote the hobby" thing, and I'll agree with that. Let's just play games, and stop with all the "Look at us! We play wargames!" stuff.

Grumpy old man! Someone pee in yer cornflakes this morning? 
I don't see the streaming thing as "let's promote the hobby" thing. We only get a handful of watchers and they are all already wargamers.... I see it a as a bunch of guys playing wargames and letting other who enjoy wargames watch and kibitz... like a gaming club...

Ha!  My guy is still mad at the Reddit children.

No, I am far more a rival of "Little Wars TV" than anything else.  I am profoundly jealous of their sweet clubhouse and the fact that's it's close to others.

I broadcast the games because I always wanted to remember them.  I honestly don't care how many watch, but, I would not mind if others could  join the club.

It's over a decade now since the best wargame store in town (only) closed.  It took a chunk of my childhood with me.  Given my schedule, getting out for a night of gaming is very, very rare indeed.  Being able to hook up with other folks on-line will just have to do.

[Bison]

One of my favorite wargame channels. Why? Hail Ceasar is a game I want to build and paint armies for some day. It’s just a dad and son playing and enjoying a game. Minis are painted but not the best quality. It doesn’t matter. They are having fun and that’s ultimately what matter from my stand point.

[Cyrano]

….
On a side note: I don’t understand the COIN games are not war games sentiment.

ACK! Do not open that can!!!! 

It’s not like I’m suggesting you clip the corners on the wooden bits.

My opinion is subjective and, in the grand scheme, meaningless, but it is what I think.  Marco gave me the very fine definition that a "wargame makes me feel like I'm playing a wargame".  COIN games do not.  They are excellent (most of them) war-themed euros.  I own all but one of them.  They are not wargames to me.

[panzerde]

The place to be is Origins, if the goal is to promote the hobby.

Nah, it really isn't. That's the point and what much discussion has been about. There aren't very many wargamers at Origins. There are fewer and fewer vendors. This year there were three vendors selling wargames, total. Most of the vendors we've worked with in the past have decided to not do Origins anymore.

Our best attended events are the CPX and Kriegsspiel sessions. Most of the players for both of those are repeats.