Armchair Dragoons Forums

Wargaming => Age of Gunpowder => Topic started by: S_Trauth on October 22, 2018, 06:07:54 PM

Title: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: S_Trauth on October 22, 2018, 06:07:54 PM
I will have to flesh this topic out a little later (day job going to intervene in my doing it all in one go).  Anyways as an introduction...

A fair amount of the feedback (that I saw, anyway) -was that release without 3D art was something that was commented on.  To be honest, releasing it without the 3D wasn't something that was planned, but was just one of those things. My part in this project (started out as playtester -with some early beta work back in 2012 -but then later on got asked if I was interested in trying out being a graphics coordinator).

Graphics coordinator is largely a research based role, but also means that you get what material that comes in and fit it in to the game; you also have to pay attention to the game play, to ensure that the graphics make sense with how the title works -I'll probably explain that more a bit later). There will be more samples than I got time to add right now, but at this point there are a lot of place holders ... however, consider this, most things in development are not fair game to post previews - but this one is.  I expect it to happen - there will at the very least be a set of map graphics created. The units are also being done -by a couple of guys that contacted Rich  (I'll be a bit more formal later - yes I do know their names, and will use them - and will give them full credit)... and things are coming along pretty nicely, but there are a lot of units to go through
(http://hist-sdc.com/images/spotlights/mp_syw/_mp_syw_cover.png)

I guess one thing that I will put out there - something that I thought was public knowledge - and that is SDC is pretty much just me. There is no team behind it -although I have had guys help out off and on over the 9 years or so that I have had it ... far more off than on, really.

The image above - I decided that the rectangle had to go. It didn't make it to the JTS website- that one there is the original one that I replaced. I did it as a 32 bit png ... ok and did the background as the same colour as the load screen (black).  I guess that counts as a preview ... sorta...

Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: panzerde on October 29, 2018, 02:10:26 PM
I've always had reservations about the 3D views in these games. Mostly, they've been unusable for me.

I like the improvements I'm seeing for SYW and the rest of the games using the new Renaissance engine, though. Thanks for the preview of what's going on, Steve!
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: Cyrano on October 31, 2018, 09:55:37 AM
Like Doug I'm a 2D kid exclusively -- unless I'm really confused about a road's course -- but anything that draws em in!!
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: S_Trauth on November 01, 2018, 09:12:57 AM
I better own that I don't generally play these in 3d either -- about all I might use it for would be a screenshot for the website  *but* this is really more about a challenge on if I can put something together to get a presentable map. 

The REN update is pretty close to being ready (or I think I read that from Rich) - and I worked out after posting an image of some context on the FB site (since I don't presume everyone makes it over there ....  and I want to be close to the last person that spruiks FB anyways... I will post it here).

(http://hist-sdc.com/development/_project_syw/planning_maps/lobosotz_evolution.jpg?fbclid=IwAR0j-A4D9HWPQwH0qO2LB2RyHYbN3NN32_AA5NxSKF7-IYKvgY_yv7CEulc)

There's a problem here though...  :whistle:   the last version on the left ... I don't know if I actually added that to the mod I have on the SDC site - so have to go in and add it -- really the main difference is that I played around with a light tan to khaki filter .... and got the lower elevations toned way down from the one 2nd left.  Also the one on the far right --- I think that was the original stock plus I had to have messed around with the full water hexes ... those would have been more blue in the original stock...

Anyways I got nothing really to report on the 3d map front --- I still need to do some deciding on some buildings/chateaux/town hex graphics so that the 3 types of terrain are distinguishable --- and frankly, too, there are a lot of units to be assembled --so that part of the process will take awhile -- the map will probably be ready to go well before that.

I also want to acknowledge that Doug is a big promoter of 2mm scale looks -- and that is really an interesting prospect to see what can be put together at about that relative sort of scale -- I do totally agree within his statements about sweep and scope of the scale of a battlefield that he has been talking to me about on email ... usually like about 6 AM my time locally on a work day ... so I mean I have to pry myself away from the conversation and go and get ready for work ... :D   yeh, that's life in sunny Australia ... it isn't all prawns on the barbie, roos and beaches ... apparently it is me, messenger, and an awaiting work day ... they seriously need to put that on the travel ads  :biggrin:
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: Cyrano on November 01, 2018, 09:59:14 AM
1:  Those are really great and are going to give Doug a fit of the vapours.

2:  Yes, my friend has gone all Caratacus Potts on me, venturing into his laboratory from which odd bangings, whistlings, and Prussian martial airs are heard.
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: panzerde on November 01, 2018, 11:40:37 AM
1:  Those are really great and are going to give Doug a fit of the vapours.

2:  Yes, my friend has gone all Caratacus Potts on me, venturing into his laboratory from which odd bangings, whistlings, and Prussian martial airs are heard.

Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: S_Trauth on November 05, 2018, 06:54:09 AM
An elevation key for Musket and Pike series.  Yes I know it is probably the longest image I am ever going to link to ... ::)  There are also some hexside graphic cues as well -although it is pretty easy to add in darker or lighter effects.

*Note: that the texture used looks a little different than here. I was going more for the range of colours and not the exact thing.

(https://scontent.fper5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/45374063_1930874537008824_293332543896289280_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fper5-1.fna&oh=07b8cd54c20b1326c94fbc41aaf164ad&oe=5C42FB19)
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: S_Trauth on November 05, 2018, 07:30:50 AM
Ok, so there has been a very little about 3d as of yet.... I have to change that.

Been working on a 2d zoom in mode map image for Kursk 43 (big map .... takes time ...) - but the process I think is going to involve also developing a new 3D map for Renaissance... need to do a building review -but at the moment the review is on Seven Years War.
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: Lancier on November 28, 2018, 03:57:55 AM
Hello gents.
Have JTS's some Napoleonic and Civil War titles but couldnt decide if i should have The Seven Years War or not, graphic based there is not much of an improvement i guess?WDS is doing a great job with some panzer battles and panzer campaigns for JTS i know but they dont touch the other titles probably. (Tho they released Petersburg yes which i got and it looks pretty nice and put on makeup to come civil war games lately )

(I use Philippe mods for Leipzig and Austerlitz and also JA Barredo 2DMap for Pennisular)

Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: Cyrano on November 28, 2018, 07:52:40 AM
Those very ambitious lads at WDS will be making their way through all the ACW games — God willing and the creek don’t rise.  Doug and I were SYW playtesters so we’re certainly not unbiased but there’s much there to like and the fresh coat of paint is nice enough.
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: panzerde on November 28, 2018, 08:39:35 AM
If you're at all interested in the period, SYW is a must. There isn't a more comprehensive treatment of the war available, and the REN engine adds some much appreciated game-play improvements.
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: Lancier on November 29, 2018, 11:25:12 AM
Wow, that is a must then. Btw any graphic mods you know of for 7YW? I found one from Philippe tho but if some others on, i would be glad to grab ^^
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: panzerde on November 29, 2018, 11:26:55 AM
Wow, that is a must then. Btw any graphic mods you know of for 7YW? I found one from Philippe tho but if some others on, i would be glad to grab ^^

Steve (above) did a couple that are available from the SDC site. Those are the ones I use.
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: Lancier on November 30, 2018, 06:33:56 AM
panzerde, i couldnt find the link for Steve's mod on SDC, can you give me the link please? http://hist-sdc.com/mdc/index.htm# ? (http://i65.tinypic.com/33n9eh0.gif)
...and everyone use the default 7YW options?
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2cp6h44.png)
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: panzerde on November 30, 2018, 08:52:24 AM
panzerde, i couldnt find the link for Steve's mod on SDC, can you give me the link please? http://hist-sdc.com/mdc/index.htm# ? (http://i65.tinypic.com/33n9eh0.gif)
...and everyone use the default 7YW options?
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2cp6h44.png)

Here's the counter mod:
http://hist-sdc.blogspot.com/2018/09/bevel-and-counter-clip-mod.html

Steve has a terrain mod, too, but I can't find the link right now. I've asked him to share it.

Definitely play with the defaults. All the scenarios were playtested that way, and they were selected provide the most period accurate rules.

Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: Lancier on December 01, 2018, 12:38:21 AM
Ah ok thanks for the mod link and default options then, got you. Just grabed the game, i was not using 3D much already but it is strange just not to have it at all with SYW. Will get used to it for sure. Game seems nice and quite different from Napoleonic ones? ;Z

Here's the counter mod:
http://hist-sdc.blogspot.com/2018/09/bevel-and-counter-clip-mod.html

Steve has a terrain mod, too, but I can't find the link right now. I've asked him to share it.

Definitely play with the defaults. All the scenarios were playtested that way, and they were selected provide the most period accurate rules.
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: S_Trauth on December 01, 2018, 07:01:35 AM
I think Doug was looking for this:

http://hist-sdc.com/images/spotlights/mp_syw/SYW-sdc-mod.zip

Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: panzerde on December 01, 2018, 11:00:06 AM
I think Doug was looking for this:

http://hist-sdc.com/images/spotlights/mp_syw/SYW-sdc-mod.zip

Yep, that's the ticket! Thanks Steve.

Lancier, I got your email about a games and I'm up for it. Unfortunately my gaming rig seems to have a blown power supply right now. I'll respond once I have that fixed.
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: Lancier on December 02, 2018, 05:25:34 AM
Lancier, I got your email about a games and I'm up for it. Unfortunately my gaming rig seems to have a blown power supply right now. I'll respond once I have that fixed.

Sure panzerde, thanks.
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: S_Trauth on January 04, 2019, 06:41:59 PM
I'm not sure if I wrote this earlier, but the plan is to try to add some colour coding in to the building types in 3D mode so that type of terrain is easier to differentiate. To that end I got back some work from Joe that I am going to add in for chateau terrain type.  I haven't yet tried to resize them for 3D zoom out mode, and the one screenshot that I put out there was basically a test of the 2 building graphics that I had been given ( 1 2 1 2 1 2) across the file. I don't actually know how the programming chooses which file on a row (in the graphics file when it does), sometimes ... so I don't know exactly how this will turn out. I know that before there was an issue with too many churches being placed in some towns (these were used for Building terrain types in their Napoleonic series).

Anyways, once I get that out there I will post a screenshot.  I think that it might be time to also do some work within the snow/frozen terrain types.

To be fair, at this point, this is to create a usable set of terrain for the entire Musket and Pike series -and basically make the building types (and probably the roads, maybe even fields ...) as 'variables' that might be changed around for different periods in time. Or put another way a building in one century might look differently than something serving the same purpose in another century.
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: S_Trauth on January 05, 2019, 06:10:51 PM
I had some cobblestone texture from earlier in the design phase of the project.  I had thought to use this for Village hexes, so as to greater outline where an built up area was; however I must have thought of that one late at night, since it occurred to me, that due to layering, that if I added a cobblestone effect as the entire hex to a building hex, then that would form the top layer of an image.

That would become a problem since players would not ever see the underlying terrain. Not a problem, until a player is looking for a road net and which way it goes (which was a deal breaker). 

...so, what to do? ...

Well, chateau, as a terrain class, generally means a fortified area. In some cases they are walled in farming areas, but they have also been used for other, harder to crack, areas. Better than that, though, is that chateau terrain class doesn't matter about roads running through them -and because of this ... (and maybe because it was a bit more fiddly than I thought, to redo the roofs of places to something uniform, per terrain class (I think I can get reasonably close, but not exact) ... chateau class got cobblestone hexes -for ease in identification.   These can be toned done some,  and I will probably do a little adjustment to get the fit a little more exact to the hex outline used on the maps.

(https://scontent.fper5-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49372215_2014332511996359_5428228566334570496_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent.fper5-1.fna&oh=9112062389ce0b0bec781bec067163a6&oe=5C905DA8)

One of the things I think I am seeing above, is the scale is a bit off (most of the buildings come from other titles - so I am thinking that Village terrain class should be more buildings, that are smaller. 

Viewers of my Facebook material will have noticed that I had done more work over the past 3 or 4 weeks, and am a bit at a loss where to post about that - but I guess, technically it isn't really ready to put out there for downloads (the First World War Campaigns material, particularly).
Title: Re: JTS: Musket and Pike series - Seven Years War - the 3D project
Post by: mirth on January 06, 2019, 12:26:16 PM
Damn. Coming along very nicely! :bigthumb: