Author Topic: McClellan at Antietam  (Read 944 times)

mirth

  • Cardboard Harlot
  • Administrator
  • Lancer
  • *
  • Posts: 2944
    • Armchair Dragoons
on: September 17, 2018, 12:17:12 PM

Being able to Google shit better than your clients is a legit career skill.


mirth

  • Cardboard Harlot
  • Administrator
  • Lancer
  • *
  • Posts: 2944
    • Armchair Dragoons
Reply #1 on: September 17, 2018, 12:41:02 PM

Being able to Google shit better than your clients is a legit career skill.


Barthheart

  • Jr Lancer
  • ***
  • Posts: 915
  • Liquid noble gas dispenser
Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 12:50:04 PM

PETS - People for the Ethical Treatment of Square corners


bob48

  • Smeghead.
  • Warrant Officer
  • Lancer
  • *
  • Posts: 1581
Reply #3 on: September 17, 2018, 01:22:21 PM
Very interesting - thanks for posting that  :bigthumb:

And now for something completely different!


bob48

  • Smeghead.
  • Warrant Officer
  • Lancer
  • *
  • Posts: 1581
Reply #4 on: September 17, 2018, 03:58:14 PM
Lord, he was terrible

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/articles/mcclellan-antietam

Its true, and yet when you look at him as a leader and administrator, its a different story as he really pulled the Union Army together and gave it esprit de corps. Its just a pity that as a high level commander he failed. As I recall, his early battlefield leadership in West Virginia (?) was commendable.

And now for something completely different!


mirth

  • Cardboard Harlot
  • Administrator
  • Lancer
  • *
  • Posts: 2944
    • Armchair Dragoons
Reply #5 on: September 17, 2018, 04:05:50 PM
He won a couple of minor battles in W. VA. Mostly he didn't lose them. However it was enough to get Lincoln's attention.

He was indisputably an excellent organizer and trainer of troops. His troops absolutely loved him.
And those are about the only positive things I'll ever say about George Brinton McClellan.

Being able to Google shit better than your clients is a legit career skill.


besilarius

  • Jr. Trooper
  • *
  • Posts: 87
Reply #6 on: December 04, 2018, 07:28:18 AM
The saddle he designed was in use for a long time.
Probably the cavalry troopers enjoyed putting their butts on a McClellan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McClellan_saddle

"These things must be done delicately-- or you hurt the spell."  - The Wicked Witch of the West.


bob48

  • Smeghead.
  • Warrant Officer
  • Lancer
  • *
  • Posts: 1581
Reply #7 on: December 04, 2018, 08:51:34 AM
Yeah, I'd read about that before. Seems it actually became more-or-less standard issue.

I remember seeing a picture of him somewhere riding his black horse 'Dan Webster'.

And now for something completely different!


panzerde

  • Trooper
  • **
  • Posts: 449
  • Kriegsherr
    • Cry Havoc
Reply #8 on: April 17, 2019, 05:24:27 PM
While I'm definitely no fan of McClellan, after reading Carman's The Antietam Campaign some of what he did during that campaign now makes more sense to me. Carman was actually there, and isn't really a McClellan advocate, but makes a good case that at least some of the criticism he faced later was misplaced and politically motivated.

I found the sections concerning the speed of the AOTP's advance from Washington particularly interesting, along with the bit on Harper's Ferry.  Well worth the read.

He was still a tool, though.

No peace without Lutha!

Castellan -  La Fraternite des Boutons Carres


bob48

  • Smeghead.
  • Warrant Officer
  • Lancer
  • *
  • Posts: 1581
Reply #9 on: April 17, 2019, 06:34:43 PM
You still can't get away from the fact that he fed divisions in piecemeal, and never used a large part of his available troops. We see the same over-caution during the peninsular campaign.

Agreed he always had in his mind the fact the he commanded the only major force that could protect Washington, and that seemed to cloud his judgement.

He was without doubt a great administrator, and really gave esprit de corps to the AotP, but he was a failure when it came to making offensive decisions. He did well early on in the war when commanding fewer troops..

And now for something completely different!


panzerde

  • Trooper
  • **
  • Posts: 449
  • Kriegsherr
    • Cry Havoc
Reply #10 on: April 17, 2019, 10:55:41 PM
You still can't get away from the fact that he fed divisions in piecemeal, and never used a large part of his available troops. We see the same over-caution during the peninsular campaign.

Agreed he always had in his mind the fact the he commanded the only major force that could protect Washington, and that seemed to cloud his judgement.

He was without doubt a great administrator, and really gave esprit de corps to the AotP, but he was a failure when it came to making offensive decisions. He did well early on in the war when commanding fewer troops..

Like I said, no great fan, and his conduct during and after the battle was disastrous.  What Carman points out is that the criticism that he was too slow to advance is really false; he was no slower than any other commander of the AOTP was before or after, and he actually made pretty good speed.  I would definitely read Carman before making any judgments about that campaign.  Not only was the man present, he spent literally the rest of his life interviewing other participants from both sides and was the chief historical expert for the Antietam National Battlefield after it was established. He sheds a lot of light on things. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezra_A._Carman

No peace without Lutha!

Castellan -  La Fraternite des Boutons Carres


bob48

  • Smeghead.
  • Warrant Officer
  • Lancer
  • *
  • Posts: 1581
Reply #11 on: April 18, 2019, 09:02:53 AM
Looks like there is no Kindle version :-(

And now for something completely different!



bob48

  • Smeghead.
  • Warrant Officer
  • Lancer
  • *
  • Posts: 1581
Reply #13 on: April 18, 2019, 10:02:22 AM
Thanks Doug, although is that not a different book to the one mentioned earlier?

And now for something completely different!


panzerde

  • Trooper
  • **
  • Posts: 449
  • Kriegsherr
    • Cry Havoc
Reply #14 on: April 18, 2019, 01:39:55 PM
Thanks Doug, although is that not a different book to the one mentioned earlier?

It's the book I was thinking of, just not what I called it...  :doh:

No peace without Lutha!

Castellan -  La Fraternite des Boutons Carres