Author Topic: LnL Tactical question  (Read 971 times)

Barthheart

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Reply #30 on: November 09, 2019, 03:11:05 AM
There should be a -1 for the Argies for firing at moving infantry.

I agree with SDR about moving to J7. Next turn send one squad around the end of the building and up next to the Brits to make them a) shoot or b) be auto spotted for being next to a GO friendly. K6-K5-K4. Then move remaining squad, SW, and leader into the ground floor, J4, in the next impulse.

But moving directly into the building is just as valid, the Brits just got lucky.
I might have used -1 for the Argies movement - the above was all from memory.

I'm glad you said my move was "just as valid". I was playing as "honestly" as I could for the opposition (I don't know why I didn't use the Solo cards...I think I just forgot). The idea was to make progress forward and get them into cover. -3 TM is decent cover and was worth the risk. As you said, the Brits got lucky rolling an 8.

In hindsight though, the Argies wouldn't have known if anyone was in the building or not...so perhaps I shouldn't have entered them onto the map as a stack and first made one "scout"....I don't think it said in the scenario rules that they had to enter as a stack.

Yes you could have entered a single squad to start. Good idea when trying to trigger Op Fire.

As for the Solo module , it’s better that you play both sides for a bit to get the flow of the game then add in the Solo module. Also there are not enough cards to run both side from the cards. There’s attack cards, defence cards and neutral cards to make up decks. Not enough neutrals to make and attack deck and a defence deck.

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judgedredd

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Reply #31 on: November 09, 2019, 04:53:21 AM
I split the cards up into defence, attack and split the neutrals into two piles to shuffle into the defence and attack stacks and there seemed to be a few.

Ah well. I'll likely just play as the Brits or do as you suggest and play both...as long as I can stay objective

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Barthheart

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Reply #32 on: November 09, 2019, 05:55:35 AM
When I play both side I find it easier to try and play the attacker as “my team” and have the defender mostly react to what the attacker is doing. Try to OpFire only when it makes sense and not move much unless to retake VP locations.
It can some times lead to analysis paralysis as you know what the attackers next moves are and so it can become difficult to stay on track. But the dice help sometimes with unexpected results.
You can, like you were saying about the Argies, play as you’d think the actual troops on the ground would, sort role playing / story telling.

Most of all have fun. Cheat once and a while with a re-roll to move the story along or erase extreme results.

Some people think that they need to step in a lot with the Solo module because they see what appears to be stupid moves. Me, I just go with whatever the cards dictate. The AI can surprise this way a few moves later that you won’t have seen coming.

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judgedredd

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Reply #33 on: November 09, 2019, 07:28:38 AM
Thanks.

Subsequent impulses.

Due to visibilty being restricted to 4 hexes on the first turn, there's not alot of firing going on.

1. The Argentinian 3-3-4 squad land on hex D8 and want to move up to the left to capture the Marine barracks at B2, C1 and D1. It costs 2MPs to move onto D8 and 2 to move into C7.

2. The British need to stop them so they drop down a level of the building in F3 for a cost of 2MPs and move along the road, using DT (double time) and jump into the wooden building in C3 - all costing a total of 6MPs.
I'm not quite sure about the legitimacy of this move...at the time of moving the British had no idea the Argies were heading for the barracks. I forgot to be objective here and jumped the gun. Had I waited until the Hero had moved, I could've at least made an argument for they saw someone jumping in the building and decided to move.

3. The Hero lands in hex C7 for a cost of 2MPs and moves up the road and jumps into the building in B5 for a total of 6MPs

4. The Brits pass and the Argie 3-3-4 lands in hex I7 for 2MPs. They know now that the Brits are in J4, so they stay behind the building and move to the side for 2MPs hoping to make it in the building next turn.



The Brits to the west near Government House will now move to better positions.



5. The medic and 2 squads are going to head to J5 for the defensive position in the rugged terrain (+3 TM) so they move to K4

6. Cpt Edwards and his squad are heading to the high ground at D4 and so move out to their jump off at F5

That concludes the first turn.

I'm actually thinking I could leave Cpt Edwards and his squad in Government House...they have plenty of range with the SW



So there's a couple of things that have cropped up that reminded me of the complexity of LnL. Why would they move the values around from counter to counter. Cpt Edwards MV needs to be bottom left corner (which it admittedly almost is) and the SW FP and range need to be at the left corner and middle as it is in MMC counters

I'm sure I'll get used to it - but it is (at least initially) annoying.

Second thing is the hex identifiers are shocking. I'm spending an awful lot of time looking for a hex in the same column to try and find the number. Only a pain when being instructed to do something on a specific hex - but still annoying. Makes me want to get X-Maps  :'(


Alba gu' brath


Barthheart

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Reply #34 on: November 09, 2019, 10:50:09 AM
Hmmm... the the location of the factors differing from squads to single man counters to support weapons never bother me... it’s similar in every squad level game I think....

Yeah Cpt. Edwards could have stayed put and I would have left Lt  Smith in his start location too. Smith had good cooperative covering fire with the troops in J4 and field of fire down the road at the house the hero is now in.

Good going so far. It gets quicker and soon you won’t even be looking at the DFT or the terrain chart.

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judgedredd

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Reply #35 on: November 09, 2019, 12:13:26 PM
It's probably just a case of getting used to it. I keep having to check at the moment.

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Barthheart

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Reply #36 on: November 09, 2019, 12:16:49 PM
Oh definitely... just takes a few games.

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tuna

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Reply #37 on: November 09, 2019, 12:48:45 PM
Oh definitely... just takes a few games.

Get into FOG and play your turn!!!  >:(



Barthheart

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Reply #38 on: November 09, 2019, 01:41:33 PM
Oh definitely... just takes a few games.

Get into FOG and play your turn!!!  >:(

As soon as I get to my hotel ... so maybe Dec..... :P

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judgedredd

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Reply #39 on: November 09, 2019, 04:33:43 PM
Turn 2 started with the Brits getting the initiative.

Nothing to do so the Argies in I6 try to rally. The leader and one of the squads manages to rally but one with the SW (support weapon) is still shaken.

The Brits move Cpt Edwards and his squad back to Government House.



1. The 3-3-4 squad Assault Move into the building
2. The Brits open up with Op Fire and get no result
3. As the Brits have given their position away, they are attacked by the squad and shaken
4. The Argentinian squad Low Crawls forward to try and draw fire...see if there's any enemy about before the Hero Yaco tries to make a b-line for the Marine Barracks
5. Brits do open up and manage to shake the Argentinian squad
6. The hero now makes a break by Assault Moving to the Marine Barracks
7. He then fires at the Brits in C3 and misses - he shouldn't have opened fire - Assault Move only allows him 3MPs and he had to use 4 to get into the barracks

The Argentinians and the Brits both pass and end the turn.

The Argentinian Ayerza in hex I6 could've moved with his squad, but ideally he wants to see if he can rally those troops before he heads off.
The Argentinians are going to leave the Brit squad in J4 because they're shaken with no leader - so there's no need to eliminate them
is that cheating - because I guess they don't know! Also - would any of you just have abandoned your unit?

Anyway - two more turns and the big boys turn up in their LVTP7s

Alba gu' brath


Barthheart

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Reply #40 on: November 10, 2019, 03:15:06 AM
If killing units is not part of the VP then leaving shaken squads is fine as long as you are sure they can’t get to a leader. Shaken squads can still move so it’s possible the Brits could get Lt Smith and the shaken squad to move together and rally.

I’d move to kill just to be sure.

I would not leave the shaken squad in I6. More troops is always better, but they are on a short time line so it’s a judgement call. I would have taken a shot with them though cause it’s free because no one can return fire.

Low crawl in the open does no good, other than take away the -1 for moving target. But if you had moved normally and the Brits had missed you could have moved to better cover.

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judgedredd

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Reply #41 on: November 10, 2019, 03:47:59 AM
If killing units is not part of the VP then leaving shaken squads is fine as long as you are sure they can’t get to a leader. Shaken squads can still move so it’s possible the Brits could get Lt Smith and the shaken squad to move together and rally.

I’d move to kill just to be sure.
Yeah - leaving them is a risk - but I'm hoping to swamp Lt Smith and get rid of him. As you said though - the Argentinians are on a tight timeline so they need to keep up the momentum.

Having said that, the next turn (unless the Brits get initiative and move), I could eliminate them. So I'll see. If the Brits get initiative, they'd move away and closer to Lt Smith, so I'll leave them and got after Lt Smith. If the Argies get the initiative then I'll pounce on them.

I would not leave the shaken squad in I6. More troops is always better, but they are on a short time line so it’s a judgement call. I would have taken a shot with them though cause it’s free because no one can return fire.
Yeah - it really was a judgement call. I thought I'd leave him in place and give him that one chance to rally the troops.

Low crawl in the open does no good, other than take away the -1 for moving target. But if you had moved normally and the Brits had missed you could have moved to better cover.
But I wanted to draw fire and minimise the risk - which Low Crawl did. Lt Ayerza can get to them on Turn 4 and try and rally on turn 5. Having written that though, what use are they really going to be to me on turn 5. I'm not going to make Government House if I'm only at C6 on Turn 5.

I think I was caring about my troops too much. Looking at the troops I have and the job I have to do, I should've been cracking on and that means moving Ayerza on that last turn. He'd be close to Lt Smith on this turn and the objective.

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judgedredd

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Reply #42 on: November 10, 2019, 07:27:39 AM
Turn 3 the Argentinians did get the initiative and were able to rally the troops in I6





1. The Argentinian squad head towards the Marine Barracks from J6 and move into H5 before they are fired on.
I did think about moving them to eliminate the British squad but they wouldn't make it this movement as it would cost 5MPs to move up to the second level of the building and also it would cost them 2 more to get down from the second level next turn
2. The British under Lt Smith open fire and the Argentinian squad is left shaken
3.  I move Cpt Edwards and his squad back onto the ridge and into Government House
4. The Argentinian Hero moves through the Marine Barracks making sure they're clear
5. The British squad and medic move into the rough terrain on higher ground so they have a decent field of view
6. Lt Ayerza and his two squads make a break for the north to try and eliminate Lt Smith
7. A sniper suddenly appears and opens fire on Ayerza and his squads - causing casualties to the squad with the support weapon...he and his good squad continue to the safety of the building

That's the end of Turn 3.

I was in a dilemma with Ayerza. Obviously I knew the Brits had a sniper...but he wouldn't which is why I decided to try and mimic his situation on the ground...he knew troops had opened fire. He knew where from (roughly) over the course of the previous two turns...so I don't think it was totally unreasonable for him to have been thinking the Brits had shown their hand.

I was also in a dilemma with the Brits and placing the sniper...after all, what good is he going to be now really? I thought perhaps I could've been better served having him guard Government House with his range.

Anyway - what's done is done and the Argentinians have more troops and two LVTP7s heading onto the beach next turn.

« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 07:31:06 AM by judgedredd »

Alba gu' brath


Barthheart

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Reply #43 on: November 10, 2019, 08:35:24 AM
Looks good! Everything you did makes sense.

Snipers are good but are indeed hard to decide where to put them. Too close to the action and they are easily kill in melee... too far and they get only 1 shot maybe 2.... Where he is now gives an alright view of the beach.

Argies need to take out that LAW or their LVTP7s might get explodey….

A point about spotted markers, you don't put them on anyone that gets a move or fired marker. Saves clutter and anyone who moved or fired is spotted for the rest of the turn anyway.

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Silent Disapproval Robot

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Reply #44 on: November 10, 2019, 08:38:09 AM
Regarding the shaken Brit squad, remember that the Brits in the Falklands scenarios have the special ability to try to self rally when they’re attacked in melee so it’s a risk trying to finish them off.

I got two games in at BottosCon over the weekend.  I played as the Brits in the Falklands in a scenario where the Argies conduct a pre-dawn parachute and helicopter raid.  Very bloody affair but I managed to hold on in that one.  I played as the Germans against the US 506th in Vierville.  Dice were not with me at all in that one and I got massacred.   I managed to rush the objective with two squads and a sgt on turn two and get into melee with two of their squads and a cpt.  Everyone died.  Those were the only US casualties of the match.  He always managed to pass his morale checks whereas I seemed to fail all mine by one or two and get shaken.  Then he’d just rush one squad around and mop up each shaken unit in melee turn after turn.